Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ Oldlace

Today at 11:28 am

amother Maroon wrote:

You're right. I would add seminary and uniforms to the list after weddings. That's the most I spend on clothes ever and it bothers me every year. You can find very plain flats for cheap, wouldn't put that down as a necessary expense.

Not up to seminary yet, but it scares me. Camp is not mandatory in my community, though. Which communities make it mandatory? I know chassidish yeshivas go upstate, but isn't that similar to what they'd be paying for daycamp?

Also simchos.
Its beautiful to say that everyone should make small simchos.
But if a school mandates you use a specific hall (that has a minimum) or mandates you invite all the classmates and all the Rebbeim, then don't complain about big simchos.

OddoneOut1

Today at 12:28 pm

I read majority of the posts but need to comment on all the posters discussing the high standards of living- I agree that it is a huge issue in our communities but bringing that up constantly actually minimizes the sheer enormity of tuition irregardless of standard of living.
6 kids in the school system is an estimated 55-90k in tuition for most schools. A couple making 150k combined is considered a VERY nice salary in the secular world, but would be a 1/3 or more of that lovely family’s tuition bil which is so clearly more than what they could afford.
True, if people would cut down on their lifestyle they may be able to afford MORE of their tuition, but this amount is still untenable.
So yes, the school systems expectation is that parents of the school need to be the top earners in the US just to pay tuition…doesn’t take away the fact of course that that is simply the cost of education…having many Frum children is a HUGE financial “situation” (I can’t bring myself to call it burden)

amother

↑ Bottlebrush

Today at 12:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

There is one last basic question you left out:

4) Is it reasonable for the bottom 70% of our community to generally (not every single individual family) live like the top 30% of the secular population in so many aspects and in celebrating life cycle events, yet still expect to have their children’s private school educational costs to be a right and entitlement that “the community” needs to figure out for them rather than a personal responsibility?

It sure wasn’t that way in Europe when the Kehilla had a cheder.

The Rav of our middle class working class shul told us that when all is said and done, the average working family- that needs to come on to some Tzedaka help to make a wedding- spends between $70,000 and $90,000 one one child’s wedding FOR ONE SIDE.

The “babysitters and bus drivers” in the non Jewish world wouldn’t dream of spending the above. The bottom 30% of the secular world simply don’t live in $750k- 1.25k large homes. They don’t wear $50-$80 school shoes, $150 outfits, drive 2 newer model cars, or send the kids to expensive sleepaway camp. They don’t turn up their noses at shopping for clothes in Walmart and other discounters. They don’t even buy $200-300 worth of cuts of meat- even for a holiday. Or get the above from tzedaka and communal organizations- it boils down to the same thing; community resources.

There is this huge dichotomy of the average family living like the above average income family and then finding tuition to be out of their budget. Until we address this as a community the answer to your question is that there is no place for “Jewish teachers and babysitters and nurses and bus drivers” because we as a community are not allowing for that space.

The issue is that you are using numbers without full pictures.
So your argument is unfair
In the secular world they don’t marry off their children at the age we do.
Therefore they don’t need to pay for setting them up ( and vast majority to pay for most of college which is the same amount)
( the actual wedding is between 17- 25 average in Lakewood)
Secular families
Have much less kids so their food bill is lower
And non kosher meat is a Quarter of the price
You can get a ham for 4.99 a pound
They don’t need to walk to a Shul on Shabbos so can live where ever they want
Don’t have to dress tznius

And almost everyone I know who is struggling are not spending the amounts of you posted.
All my relatives who struggle live in smaller homes.
But shoes at sales.
Have their kids work one half to help pay for sleepaway
Buys kids clothing in h and M , target, and Walmart

You seem tone deaf to the realities of so many who struggle
I bless you that you should never understand

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Today at 2:01 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

My son's mesivta Rebbeim, menahelim and everyone involved strongly pushed many times over again that my sons would go to sleep away learning camps. That cost $2500 roughly and theyre past daycamp.
If the Rebbi and menahel is pushing it so much, don't penalize me for sending.

Ok, this has not been my experience at all. My mesivta aged son worked in a day camp this past summer and no one blinked.

I also don't think camp for a high school kid for a few years one month only is living like the 30%. If you're talking two months each summer from age 10 and up, that's another story.

amother

↑ Sapphire

Today at 2:05 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

By using expensive community resources like large shul buildings, elaborate mikvahs, or costly services like Hatzalah without paying a proportionate amount to your use, you effectively DO expect it.

So, first of all, that's a ridiculous assumption. If somebody chooses to build something for the community and it's already there and I pay or make use of it for free, then that's completely different than assuming someone else should pay for me if it wouldn't be there. If someone build something for the community then kol hakavod to them. That is completely different than expecting other people to do it for you. Plus, me personally, when I use community services, I give a donation after.

We didn't have a shul nearby in our neighborhood and so we all got together and gave some money and put together our own shul. No, we didn't find some random rich person and demand that they build something. Everyone took responsibility on their own and gave the max within their means.

amother

↑ Maroon

Today at 2:06 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

OK, you obviously don't live in lkwd. We're actually not allowed to invite classmates to bar mitzvahs at all, so yes, how big and expensive you decide to make your bar mitzvas is completely on you. I can't believe they make you use a specific hall, what in the world??

amother

↑ Blue

Today at 2:20 pm

OddoneOut1 wrote:

This is what I tried explaining in a previous post. You did it a lot better 😎