Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

Gardenia

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 1:07 pm

I started reading the article, but I know it has some inaccuracies so I can't take it seriously. for example it says that rebbeim in OOT schools are earning 70-80k. If that's the case, is it only my husband a rebbi of a few decades who is being paid less than that?? He is paid about $50k, that's a huge difference. Great, now everyone will think that we have more money than we do..(sarcasm alert) so I guess you imamothers should all know that rebbeim are not necessarily earning anything close to that!

justforfun87

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 1:18 pm

How do the Catholic schools function? I was recently sent an ad in the mail of all the private schools in Baltimore. Obviously the fancy ones are 30-40k but most of the Catholic ones were similar to Jewish schools. Is it that we don't see public school as an option?

GLUE

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 1:38 pm

justforfun87 wrote:

Catholic schools are struggling very hard right now.
There is a saying that vouchers will be approved after the last catholic school closes.

At one point they did not pay there teachers now they do.
tuition has gone up and they supplement the tuition with fees.

I got this info from my neighbors when I lived in Staten Island, they would tell me all about it.

amother

Bronze

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 2:12 pm

Catholic schools have a completely different demographic for the most part at this point.

At the point the majority of people who send to Catholic school are middle class and have fewer children. They are viewed as a relatively inexpensive alternative to a public school in large cities.

Average tuition is about $13,000 although some of the more prestigious Catholic schools are more expensive.

Catholic schools were relatively inexpensive for working class people years ago when nuns were used as cheap labor and they received funding from the local churches since attendance was higher. Many neighborhoods no longer have a local church or local school and so there is a lack of funding from the neighborhoods.

amother

Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 2:17 pm

I was surprised that it was considered so unusual to continue paying tuition after your children graduate. My father finished paying my tuition after I was married and had children of my own. I'm still paying DS's yeshiva from 2 years ago and will continue until it is paid off. I don't have a regular income so I can't make regular payments but I pay what I can when I can.

amother

Gold

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 6:15 pm

It is super hard for us.
Lost job, medical bills, mental health issues. We were very open with the school. Showed them CC and bank account statements and that we don't make enough to cover our basic expenses (to explain: my shoes have holes. My YT purchase for myself was a bra that fit. Not a fancy one, cost $20.)

I cried to an administrator, the finance department... they were willing to delay payments 2 weeks. I had to call and beg. Again and again. One administrator was in Israel. Another on vacation. Finally towards the end of the summer (finance applications were due months before that) they gave us a discount.

Why am I treated like garbage? I am super open and transparent. School wasn't at all. For some reason so many teachers own homes, go on vacations... while I work chol hamoed and wear ripped shoes. Crying

amother

Purple ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 6:21 pm

My school’s rebbeim were being paid 45k recently. Veteran rebbeim doing this for many years included. The teachers probably make 15-25k for much less work. (And they can teach in the morning if they choose to.)

I’m not worried about the teachers as much as I am about the rebbeim. We pay full tuition, give about $3-5000 in tzedakah to the yeshiva, and raise about $2-3000 for their annual campaign. If I was wealthy I’d give more. My dream is to build them a building with a rentable simcha hall and gym, or open a trust fund with millions of dollars in it that pays out hundreds of thousands each year.

amother

↑ Purple

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 6:22 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

You are doing the right thing. It’s almost rosh hashana. Debts are debts.

amother

Brass ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 6:40 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

I always thought that our school would present us with a bill when our last child graduated for the years of tuition assistance. They didn't. I did volunteer work that I later got paid for and I estimate that over the years, I've effectively paid it off, which is a nice feeling.

amother

DarkYellow

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 7:24 pm

Didn't read article yet, just this thread
Just want to say in defense of the veracity of the article- there ARE OOT cities in which rebbeim make70k a year.

Cities like Los Angeles.

I know for a fact that the starting salary for a rebbi in LA about 15 years ago was 60K.

(Rent for a duplex is over 6K/mo.)

Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 7:29 pm

I know of a popular school in NY that was offering 85,000 as a starting salary for a rebbe a couple years ago. Schools are desperate...

I found the article fascinating and really bringing many different angles that prove there's no real solution. Parental attitude is really key, though, even if you can't pay it all, want to...

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 7:52 pm

The schools shoot themselves in the foot, though. If you are nasty to the parents, they will feel less inclined to want to give to the school. If you show appreciation, they will want to give more.

Treating parents like the balebatim that they are would go a long way to changing parental attitudes.

Even me, who will bli neder pay every penny I owe to the school even if it takes me decades. Some schools I will probably continue donating to them after I finish paying off my debt, because their mentchlichkeit shows me that they consider their school a mosad and appreciate what parents contribute. Other schools I am glad to never have to send another penny to in my life.

joker ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 8:12 pm

Liked the article a lot. I always say it probably does cost11-13k per child the no say it costs much less than that. Everyone paying less is not covering cost of their kid as opposed to 13k being my child plus another child that can't afford it. There is definitely a strong attitude of "tuition isn't my responsibility , they should give me a break" and I can't for the life of me understand why . should someone else come feed your kids breakfast ?!
You don't go to the grocery store and expect to pay less for a loaf of bread because you make less? There are tzedaka organizations etc how did tuition become the way it is?!
Last pet peeve is hearing "way can't we do it the way Lakewood does?!! They pay so much less? " so validating to hear that they basically weren't charging actual cost of each child and relied on huge donations .
I am an out of town full tuition paying parent (bh so grateful I can) I have no connections to schools in any way but its about time someone waa transparent and brought some grown up common sense to the conversation. I will say allowing people to pay their actual cost on a voluntary basis is such a sign of the times 🤔

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 8:28 pm

That's because you need to decide: Are you a mosad or are you a business?

If you are a business, you can have no taanos to anyone opening a new school, can't collect donations, and should expect other businesses to undercut you. Don't come complaining that you can't afford a new building, pay your employees on time or watch them quit, and don't cry when people can't afford your school. Charge full tuition to everyone, kick out those who can't pay. But remember that good customer service will usually expand your customer base.

If you are a mosad who considers it a mitzvah to educate Jewish children, you need to set your tuition to something affordable for the majority of your parent body. You need to fundraise for the rest, and appreciate the parents for their contribution. Expect the community to bail you out if it is ever necessary, and educate them on why your service is so vital. Encourage those who can afford it to give more.

Don't say you're a mosad and then run it like a cutthroat business.

Even out there in the business world there are those who offer sliding scale payment options because they feel their service is important and understand that not everyone is wealthy.

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 9:20 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

That's because you need to decide: Are you a mosad or are you a business?

If you are a business, you can have no taanos to anyone opening a new school, can't collect donations, and should expect other businesses to undercut you. Don't come complaining that you can't afford a new building, and don't cry when people can't afford your school. Charge full tuition to everyone, kick out those who can't pay. But remember that good customer service will usually expand your customer base.

If you are a mosad who considers it a mitzvah to educate Jewish children, you need to set your tuition to something affordable for the majority of your parent body. You need to fundraise for the rest, and appreciate the parents for their contribution. Expect the community to bail you out if it is ever necessary, and educate them on why your service is so vital. Encourage those who can afford it to give more.

Don't say you're a mosad and then run it like a cutthroat business.

Even out there in the business world there are those who offer sliding scale payment options because they feel their service is important and understand that not everyone is wealthy.

This all the way!!!
My school treats me like garbage. And we pay tuition fully paid up by June. They yelled at us that we shouldn’t be buying danishes and coffee at the bagel store so we can afford to pay the school. Umm man, the last time I bought myself a coffee at the shop was probably a year ago when I was rushing to fly out to be menachem avel a parent.
Sorry. No reason to be so nasty.

amother

Fern ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 9:31 pm

So much baloney in the article. I an parent in one of the schools whose administrator was interviewed. He made it seem like he is so nice and kind and gracious...him and his whole team is disgusting and treats us like garbage.

My husband and I work so, so hard and such long hours 6 days a week. We live simply in a rented apartment with a 2008 car, hand me downs, no travelling/eating out etc. Unfortunately, we also have a lot of unavoidable medical expenses.

We fill out the scholarship form every year and are so honest with every detail. And while the school does give us a break (although not as much as we need) it is always with SUCH attitude and disgust and contempt like we are cockroaches who are taking advantage, and not simply a really hardworking couple that is struggling a lot. I can't even write out some of the things I was told, it's so horrible.

All the talk in the article about "treating parents nicely" yeah it's the wealthy guys. Not us. At school events and performances, the administrator goes around shaking hands and slapping on the backs all the cool wealthy guys (who don't work nearly as hard as my dh does and whose wives don't work at all) while completely ignoring people like my dh.

And no, I will never, ever, ever give them a penny after my child graduates. They have caused me so much pain. Not that I will ever be wealthy enough to make donations anyway because they make sure I do not have a penny left over to save for simchos or retirement or anything in the future.