Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ Gold

Yesterday at 7:53 pm

For those saying the rich need to lower their standards, live like the middle class, and pay for the city's tuition bills-- why would they ever work so hard?
They need to get some.benefit to encourage them to work so hard.

It it those who are poor, the kollel, the lower income individuals, those on SNAP, those not making ends meet etc who ALL need to stop giving into the ridiculous things like matching clothes, new outfits "just because it is YT even if they have what to wear", or brand names. Or big simchos.
This is as someone who is poor.

Th3 tzeddakah organizations have got to stop upping the standards for everyone.
The gemachs in my area have super fancy clothes and matching styles, with headbands etc. So now it is "needed". And even those who are too rich for gemachs, tomchei etc (and aren't allowed to go) feel the pressure.
If it was only the 3 rich kids who got, no one would feel obligated.

When I was a kid we were middle of the pack income wise. Only the rich kids got X. The rest of us didn't care we didn't have it. It just wasn't a big deal.
Then I see with my kids. Rich get. the tzeddakah families got it. So then only the few middle group kids didn't have. And it became a big Deal.

↑ Gebentched1

Yesterday at 8:04 pm

amother Gold wrote:

I actually didn't see that written anywhere on here, not even in the snarky/facetious comments (and I'm pretty sure I've read all comments) .

WHAT I DID see (several pages back), was the proposal that rabbanim guide the gevirim to tithe k'halacha (focusing on their own city's needs, and education of the children before other charities - as halacha dictates).

The person who mentioned this SPECIFICALLY said this with reference to multi millionaires and billionaires (the .001 %) NOT the middle class or "everyday millionaires" , AND this was at the heels of another commenter bemoaning the fact that 100 million dollars was recently donated to kollelim overseas while our own communities are suffering financially.

We can all agree or disagree with this idea, but let's not take it out of context and claim that anyone on here said that the rich need to live like Middle class in order to fund our schools.

Btw I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph!

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Yesterday at 10:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

It true, tuition is a massive line item in the average family’s budget and can seem almost unbearable.

Yet I don’t think people realize the amount of money in many families budgets that goes toward high end community standards. A good number of families in my neighborhood make around 200k to 275k combined income give or take, and many have 6-9 kids and are making their first or second chasunahs. That’s a chasunah every year or two at 70k to 90k. (Much of that is community standards such as chosson kallah gifts and catered shabbos sheva brachos in a hall. )

Bar mitzvah every 2-3 years which in my middle class neighborhood is a shul hall kiddush with women’s party planner 4k, shabbos catered seudah 6-8k and Bo Bayom in hall 6-7k.

Cars are mostly Avalons and SUVs or newish oddesy or sienna 10k yearly lease payments for 2 cars.

Hats are Borsalinos at $350 shoes are Jewish store $80 to $120 dresses for shabbos yom tov are $150 to $220 each and weekday is Jewish store too. Coats are $250 and up. Backpacks brand name. Add it up for parents and kids and the total is easily in the 15k to 25k in extra spending due to community clothing standards.

Sleepaway camp is standard, close to 15k for 5 kids. Take out and restaurant suppers are pretty prevalent. Many in the neighborhood are beginning to expand their 3k square foot homes via HELOC to create nice accommodations for the young marrieds etc adding 1k to 2k monthly to their mortgage payments. That is just a partial list.

Add up the above and you will see that it is not an exaggeration to say that out of the 100k to 150k in expenses listed above, there can easily be 40k to 70k EXTRA PER YEAR in expenses that many families who can’t make full tuition spend that are simply due to community standards.

Others get much of the above from chasunah tzedakas, shul funds, camp funds etc. but it’s the same community resources.

Yes there are a minority of families who are truly trying to live barebones (until they have to make a chasunah and deal with another side) and truly are maxed out, but if the families above would channel 50k to 70k per year toward their children’s schools instead of community pressure items it would go a long way towards balancing the school budget so the frugal folks could be helped as well.

The gap might even be small enough to motivate more wealthy individuals to step forward and balance the schools budget.

Solving the community lifestyle problem has to be part of the solution.

So this was one of the main points of the article, said over and over again by multiple people.

It's not on the gevirim to pay for your child's tuition, the onus should be on the parents. The question on how to get the parents to do so was addressed many times by different people in this article.

How low can we push the bar down? How deep can we reach into our pockets to pay for our children's chinuch?

I'm going to add something here that's been bothering me for a long time (this is not in the article). If the mechanchim and mechanchos keep pushing us to buy things for our kids "so that they can fit in" we create a situation that parents are constantly buying more and more for their children. This race to fit in is IMO, the fuel that's pushing the bar higher and higher.

I think that they are basically shooting themselves in the foot by saying this. During times of overflowing prosperity there was enough for them to get paid well even if the parents weren't paying their fair share. Those times are over. Do they realize that it is they themselves who will be paying the price of their advice?

amother

↑ Maroon

Yesterday at 11:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

Can you stop? Please, just stop.

Continually posting that high standards of living are to blame for our tuition struggles is not just tone deaf, it's condescending and hurtful.

I'm happy for you that all the expenses you listed are standard for you and everyone you know.

But have you read some of the posts on this forum? Do you even realize how hard some of us are struggling? Posters here write about serving pasta for Shabbos, getting anxiety attacks about the electricity being turned off, kids going in ripped shoes, serving omelettes for YT, and then you come here and post about people sending 5 kids to camp at once, making bar mitzvahs that cost close to 20k, having two late-model leases etc. and then complaining about tuition.

Stop.

Just because this is standard to you, doesn't make it standard across the board. No, not everyone's financial difficulties will be as extreme as the ones I just listed , but if you just open your eyes and ears you'll realize that when many of us (maybe most?) posters say tuition is a real struggle, that doesn't mean it's a struggle after paying for

-upscale simchas
-camp for every kid over 10
-"Jewish" shoes and clothing for every member of the family
-brand name backpacks etc
-home renovations every few years

Etc.

What about the rest of us? Who make bar mitzvahs for under 5k (including tefillin) and wouldn't think of hiring a party planner for a women's kiddush because they have tuition to pay? Or who would never dream of stepping into a Jewish boutique or shoe store at the beginning of the season when Shein clothing and Target/gemach shoes work just fine and there's tuition to pay? Or who haven't touched their house since moving years ago because, tuition. Drive old cars. Haven't bought a new wig in years. etc.

What about us? I don't believe we are a minority like you make it out to be. I know many people who live like this, there are full neighborhoods like this. How is your drive to bring down community standards going to help make tuition affordable for those of us who know how to live within and below our means? And where is our validation?

Bottom line, tuition is insane even when you DO live within your means.

I also don't think you'll ever convince people who allegedly spend 70k extra a year to give that up for tuition. When something becomes your standard, you start looking at it like a need. Just ask the hundreds of posters on this forum if they classify their cleaning help as a want or a need and you'll see what I mean.

camp123

Yesterday at 11:58 pm

amother Gold wrote:

The reality rich aren't always that way because they work so hard. often they have inherited investment funds and don't need to do much to earn interest.
If you have a lot of money it's easier to make a lot of money.

Also, if you are frum Jew you still have an motivation to make a lot of money. What greater zechus is there than being able to support Jewish education.

Also, Jewish values should make you look at your money as a gift Hashem has given you to distribute in this world for Him. Nothing is really ours, everything belongs to Him. With the correct education and attitude the very wealthy should be encouraged to help support the schools. Many already support valuable tzedaka but schools shouldn't be any different.

amother

↑ Bellflower

Today at 12:31 am

amother Maroon wrote:

Can you stop? Please, just stop.

Continually posting that high standards of living are to blame for our tuition struggles is not just tone deaf, it's condescending and hurtful.

I'm happy for you that all the expenses you listed are standard for you and everyone you know.

But have you read some of the posts on this forum? Do you even realize how hard some of us are struggling? Posters here write about serving pasta for Shabbos, getting anxiety attacks about the electricity being turned off, kids going in ripped shoes, serving omelettes for YT, and then you come here and post about people sending 5 kids to camp at once, making bar mitzvahs that cost close to 20k, having two late-model leases etc. and then complaining about tuition.

Stop.

Just because this is standard to you, doesn't make it standard across the board. No, not everyone's financial difficulties will be as extreme as the ones I just listed , but if you just open your eyes and ears you'll realize that when many of us (maybe most?) posters say tuition is a real struggle, that doesn't mean it's a struggle after paying for

-upscale simchas
-camp for every kid over 10
-"Jewish" shoes and clothing for every member of the family
-brand name backpacks etc
-home renovations every few years

Etc.

What about the rest of us? Who make bar mitzvahs for under 5k (including tefillin) and wouldn't think of hiring a party planner for a women's kiddush because they have tuition to pay? Or who would never dream of stepping into a Jewish boutique or shoe store at the beginning of the season when Shein clothing and Target/gemach shoes work just fine and there's tuition to pay? Or who haven't touched their house since moving years ago because, tuition. Drive late-model cars. Haven't bought a new wig in years. etc.

What about us? I don't believe we are a minority like you make it out to be. I know many people who live like this, there are full neighborhoods like this. How is your drive to bring down community standards going to help make tuition affordable for those of us who know how to live within and below our means? And where is our validation?

Bottom line, tuition is insane even when you DO live within your means.

I also don't think you'll ever convince people who allegedly spend 70k extra a year to give that up for tuition. When something becomes your standard, you start looking at it like a need. Just ask the hundreds of posters on this forum if they classify their cleaning help as a want or a need and you'll see what I mean.

These articles are simply not addressed to people like us.

We don't count, lol. We just don't exist.

ETA: We are also not part of the solution because we can't be. There is no money to be had from us. Look, every school does do a certain amount of fundraising and it would be nice if the acknowledgement would be there that we are a significant (though silent) part of the frum population.

Let's put it this way - making above 150k household income puts you at the top 20% of earners in the US. But let's call a spade a spade - the typical family earning 150k combined or even 200k with 6 to 10 children is simply not going to be able to afford even the reduced tuition, let alone full. I don't believe that EVERYONE in the Frum community are in the top 20%. And even that's not enough, in order to afford frum life we need to be in the top 5%... minimum.

And those of us who are not earning in the top 5 to 20% are invisible, there's no articles for us and no solution. They simply don't care about us....