There is no school for you

B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thank you, but I doubt anyone can really help with suggestions. We are Chabad and he would never consider a non-Chabad school. We don't live in Brooklyn, but there is no yeshiva here anyway and he needs a place with a dorm.

I wish he didn't know that academically and spiritually he belongs in a top yeshiva. It would be much easier.

What a nisayon you have in front of you. I feel your pain.

As a Non-Chabad affiliated Jew, I was in the opposite position, the best school for one of my sons was Chabad. So guess what? We did what was best for our son, even if it wasnt our specific derech. It was the right decision.

The Torah teaches us "Chanoch HaNa'ar Al Pi Darko".

I am sure the Rebbe Zatzal would tell you to consider a non-Chabad school, if that is what is best for your child.

He may belong in a top Yeshiva, but has to work on other aspects of his person to get there. I daven that everything will turn out OK. Sending hugs.

amother

↑ Waterlily ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:40 pm

OP re-reading your post, and having a son who is so similar, I'd like to disagree with your approach in one area. Stop taking the blame.
He may have to hit rock bottom and realize that no one wants him to be prepared to face himself and get help.
This happened with my son.
The therapist working with him who specializes in ASD insisted we let him face the music. He was out of yeshiva for 6 months and finally agreed to get the help he needed. For the first time in his life, he is facing the fact that to do well is up to him, it may not be his fault but it is his problem and he is the one who is going to have to deal with it.
I was worried, like I'm sure you are, about what it would do to him to feel so rejected. But once he saw that no yeshiva would take him because of his struggles, he took the help, faced his issues and is now in therapy, in an excellent yeshiva under the care of a mashgiach we hired to take care of him - and he knows that if he doesn't check in with the mashgiach every day or if he skips a therapy session, he will be out of yeshiva.

As parents, we want to shield our kids. But in a situation like this, it's harming him. He can still blame the world and it's wife for his lack of a school. Until he faces up to his issues, he won't get the help he needs.

amother

↑ Waterlily

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:45 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

Good luck!
How amazing it would be if moshiach could finally just come and we could all be in EY and stop worrying about our kids' schools.

I'm thinking about mesivtas for boys with HFA. How can we start one? What would such a school system look like?

We don't want a mesivta for HFA. We want them mainstreamed with support. We want them surrounded by NT people to learn how to function in a NT world.

Here in EY a few programs have started recently and are slowly building up.
There is one self contained yeshiva with all the help necessary - it's not on a high enough learning level for the really serious learners.
There is one support program within a regular yeshiva which is at the very beginning stages ut doing well right now.

To me a support system would look like: a mentor for each boy who sits with them at the beginning of a week and sets goals - social, emotional and educational, checks in with them to make sure they are hitting the goals, keeps an eye on them socially and helps them to integrate, learn social nuances, enjoy healthy social interactions. I don't see dorm as an ideal because they need their down time away from people to recharge and that can't happen in a dorm setting. A therapist who understands the system with experience in HFASD who ois guiding the mentors and the boys. A hanhalla member who meets with the boys regularly and keeps an eye on what is going on. Social skills groups once a week in an outside setting.

amother

↑ Magenta

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:54 pm

amother Wallflower wrote:

I hear your point but they are so capable of more and higher learning. They need to feel they aren't wasting their time. That's one thing my son always says, he feels like he's wasting his time day after day.
I also don't see them in a dorm except maybe with their own rooms.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

I could stop trying to shield him.

I could tell him straight out, "Kid, you are not neurotypical, you come across as awkward to adults and weird to kids, you have social issues and executive function issues and communication issues and yeshivas don't want to deal with you. It's not that I applied late. I said they are full not to hurt your feelings but really they would have taken you if you were normal. They don't want you and wouldn't want you no matter when you applied. Your brains and Chassidishkeit won't overcome that. We are up to past our ears in debt and can't bribe them to take you. Your past Roshei Yeshiva are obviously not giving great reports about you, so you messed yourself up and now you're out of luck. There aren't any choices. You need to go to whatever school is willing to take you. Wherever it is, whatever size it is, and whatever they teach."

And then, in addition to having his self esteem trashed, he will probably decide to hitchhike to 770 and refuse to communicate with us.

Bottom line, he doesn't see why he should compromise. He is a good bochur, he learns, he davens, he does Chitas, learned a difficult mesechta on his own for Chalukas Hashas, knows tons of sichos and maamarim, he has a dumbphone, he doesn't talk to girls or look at inappropriate things or smoke or vape or drink, he wears only white shirts and a black hat and jacket. Why should he be going to a school that doesn't follow the standard Chabad yeshiva schedule or teaches secular studies?

Please remind him that Hashem runs the world. Dovid HaMelech had to compromise his whole life and that is what made him the person he was. Hashem sends us nisyanos that are beyond our comprehension to understand, we say Naaseh VeNishma. This is his deciding moment, will he say Naaseh VeNishmah.

There is a reason we dont know yet, why you are in this dilemma and personally my heart goes out to all of you. Yes, down the road, you will look back and say, wow, that was the best thing that could happen to us. But now, mired in the negativity and stuck in our inability to compromise or see Hashems hand in our lives, we think its bad.
There is a reason for all, Hashem knows what he's doing. He doesnt want your son in Antwerp etc. He needs your son elsewhere for now. Your son is not "socially awkward" for nothing. He is perfect for his tafkid. Perhaps it is a nisayon for his love of Torah to be in a yeshiva that he considers "less than". I dont know. I only know that we can only take the roads that Hashem opens up for us and regretting the roads that are closed to us, or being jealous that others have that road open when we are denied, is a waste of our time and energy and certainly not what Hashem wants for us.

Being a Torah true Jew means accepting all the good Hashem has put out for us and understanding that even the stuff we think are "bad" is really for our good. Your son is getting this lesson early.

A girl I know is in shidduchim. She knows she deserves a top bochur, but unfortunately lacking certain requirements that "top bochurim" demand/expect/will only consider, she is not getting the shidduchim she feels she deserves. She blames her parents , she blames the shadchanim, she blames the system, she blames the boys mothers etc etc ..... But reality is reality. She can either decide to give a "non top bochur" a chance or stay dateless. For now, she is just becoming farbissener. She refuses counseling or to consider any option other than her perfect idea of a husband. And since we all cant put rabbits out of our hats, all we can do is wait and love her.

That is really all you can do, wait and love your son. Support him, encourage him, help him. And mostly daven. I will continue to daven for you as well. May you see much nachas out of your son and all your children.

amother

Outerspace

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 11:10 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

But her son doesn’t see that. Even if she thinks non-Chabad is ok. And he’s old enough she can’t force him anywhere.

↑ tree of life ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 12:18 am

Hi I have posted a few times here and op
I'm going to post what I went through with my son with HFA
We did move to Israel when he was 10
Yes he did end up going to non lubavitch yeshiva from age 10 till 15
Then
Bh Israel have classes in regular yeshivia with kids on the spectrum and id not classes will give them extra help and guide them
I sent him to as many camps or programs he could go to if he didn't want to go I bribed him
I bribed him to have a therapist
I bribed him to start a life coach
If u need the number I could post for you
He does it on zoom
And bh he's 24 starting to look for shidduchim yes it was a long long process he will always have these quirks but they will get through these things hatzlacha

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 12:30 am

tree of life wrote:

Really glad for you.

Was there anything you couldn't bribe him to do? What would you have done if something really important, he refused no matter what?

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 12:59 am

amother Wallflower wrote:

I agree, I think it's really unfair to say he won't accept help when he doesn't have all the facts. If he's given the choice, yeshiva with therapy or no yeshiva, what do you think his choice would be?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 1:07 am

amother Violet wrote:

I've thought about telling him the situation straight, but I don't think it's worth the risk. Maybe he'll capitulate and agree to learn social skills. But there's also a significant chance that he will find a way to get to 770 and learn there, with no supervision and no structure. I don't believe I have a safe way to give him rock bottom.

If I have a top yeshiva and they say, "only if he is in therapy," I can give him that choice. But as of right now, I can't say that because the schools he wants to go to aren't offering him that either. What I'd be banking on is that he'd make such miraculous progress in therapy that the schools would reconsider and accept him in time for next year. That's not very realistic.

In the past he did agree to speak to someone if that was a condition of getting in, but I don't know if that agreement still stands on his end. He also expressed that he didn't want anyone else to find out and didn't think that level of privacy was possible in a yeshiva.

amother

↑ Hosta

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 1:56 am

tree of life wrote:

We just made the bribe higher just to let u no remember there bodies are there age but there mindset is three years behind so keep that in mind

I know, I have one. There are things he cannot be bribed to do. His rigidity and anxiety are so high that no bribe or consequence can touch them. Some of these are really big things, and there's nothing we can do about it.

So please be thankful for what you have. There are barriers that can't be medicated away in some people, or the only medication that works has side effects so bad that it can't be used or they refuse it, regardless of bribes. There are kids who won't take meds, no matter what. Who won't go to therapy or do it through zoom, no matter how high the bribe or bad the consequence, imposed or natural. It happens.

amother

↑ Sage

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:14 am

amother OP wrote:

Last year he was in a small, alternative yeshiva. He was very upset about that. He stopped going to seder after a few months (because it wasn't the "right" Chabad yeshiva seder) and learned on his own, but at least he was in yeshiva.

It has a very nice hanhala but they have a hands-off policy when it comes to interactions between students. I don't know what happened or who was most at fault, but my son was beat up a few times. His suit jacket was completely destroyed. The hanhala didn't get involved. One night my son called me and said he got beaten up much worse and is never going back to the yeshiva. He went to the local shul and stayed there until I came and picked him up.

In his previous yeshiva there was some bullying, there were some issues, but he went to seder almost every day and made it to the end of the year.

Unfortunately I've learned this is pretty normal in "alternative" yeshivos. Learning this first hand from my brother's who have been to too many

amother

Bergamot

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 1:14 pm

amother OP wrote:

This situation sounds complicated and difficult

Maybe you want to speak with Rabbi Leiblich of HaMesivta in CH

HaMesivta is unique in that it is small and takes care of all different “types” of boys who “don’t fit in the system”
It’s almost like each boy has his own program and because it’s small, each boy gets the attention he needs

Our son who is very Chassidish (Chabad) and a strong learner, but has “differences fitting in” did very well there
They accommodated for his unique needs and helped nurture his learning and connection to Hashem and to the Rebbe
They helped him grow in all ways- spiritual, academic and social
They allowed my son to go home early and skip the limudei chol (only the boys who want limudei chol stay for it)

It might be worth it to speak with them and see what they say- the staff there is very devoted and really go out of their way for each student. If they feel like they can help you- that’s great. If they feel like they can’t accommodate, they might be able to point you in direction that might help

Wishing you much hatzlacha in this journey
It’s really not easy