Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ Hawthorn

Fri, Sep 27 2024, 11:48 am

amother Fern wrote:

I hear. In the summer, several Gedolim from Eretz Yisroel came to America to raise millions for the yungeleit in EY because their government cut funding. I'm all for supporting torah, but why are we sending millions overseas when so many families in America are drowning and our mosdos are struggling? And I'm sure the yungekeit in EY are not being told to have less loss because of financials but I in America am not having another child because of financials

I apologize if this is disrespectful but I do think this is a huge issue that klal yisroel is able to raise millions for everything except the schools. It's not the struggling parents' fault that schools are having a hard time. It's the communal fault and we don't have strong leadership to address it

When it comes to schools that are privately owned, people are much more hesitant to donate. I think I know the person who was quoted in the article as turning down a school "executive director" (AKA owner) because "schools are businesses" - what he actually said (if it's the same person) was that he doesn't like to donate to privately owned schools. It's a legitimate reason to not want to give to a school where the owner and all of his relatives are taking fat salaries. I don't know if that's the case with that particular school but it is a widespread issue in Lakewood schools, and many people won't donate for that reason when they know that their funds can go directly to a person in need.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Fri, Sep 27 2024, 1:07 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

How are the restaurant and clothing store owners supposed to pay their kids tuition if you want everyone to stop patronizing their stores? And this economy is terrible for restaurants and takeouts. Several have closed and others are really struggling.

Definitely agree about the chassan kallah gives, they’re ridiculous but we’re all forced to give them.

The expensive bar mitzvahs and sheva brachos are also so ridiculous but they are a great source of parnassa for many frum vendors who are then able to pay tuition. Same for the jewelery store owners.

The campaign to raise millions for kollel people in Israel was seriously tone deaf and disturbing. I think it raised 100 million, might be totally wrong about that. But our communities are supposed to come first according to Halacha. And if learning isn’t financially feasible anymore in Israel, they need to figure out how to rearrange society to cater to that. Taking our desperately needed funds and having our kids elementary schools shut down for lack of funds is crazy.

Same goes for the BMG funding recently. If kollel isn’t financially feasible, leave kollel and get a job. Do not take community funds! It’s insanity.

You can make the same claims for any industry. If we stop buying excessive kallah jewelry, some jewelry stores will go out of business, etc.. Bottom line is that if we collectively reduce the expenses of yiddishe lifestyle, everyone in the community benefits. Some may have to make work adjustments, but thatisn't a reason to continue with ridiculous expenses.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Fri, Sep 27 2024, 1:13 pm

amother Eggshell wrote:

How

The campaign to raise millions for kollel people in Israel was seriously tone deaf and disturbing. I think it raised 100 million, might be totally wrong about that. But our communities are supposed to come first according to Halacha. And if learning isn’t financially feasible anymore in Israel, they need to figure out how to rearrange society to cater to that. Taking our desperately needed funds and having our kids elementary schools shut down for lack of funds is crazy.

Same goes for the BMG funding recently. If kollel isn’t financially feasible, leave kollel and get a job. Do not take community funds! It’s insanity.

I do very much agree with this. I support Torah very much so, but this actually angered me. The Torah provides guidance that we are first supposed to support our family and community. Why was so much money donated to outside communities when our community is breaking apart financially? What particularly angered me was that what good is raising money to support Torah, when we don't follow the guidance from the Torah. If we aren't internalizing its lessons, why support all the learning?

And with you about kollel. If kollel isn't feasible for a person, then they shouldn't he demanding/expecting tzedakah for it. It's just not for them at this time.

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

The schools shoot themselves in the foot, though. If you are nasty to the parents, they will feel less inclined to want to give to the school. If you show appreciation, they will want to give more.

Treating parents like the balebatim that they are would go a long way to changing parental attitudes.

Even me, who will bli neder pay every penny I owe to the school even if it takes me decades. Some schools I will probably continue donating to them after I finish paying off my debt, because their mentchlichkeit shows me that they consider their school a mosad and appreciate what parents contribute. Other schools I am glad to never have to send another penny to in my life.

I just read the article over Shabbos and this is basically what everyone was saying, over and over again.

If you open your books and really try to explain to the parents why you need the money, if you treat them like partners, it will go a long long way.

Very interesting read, but there were some inaccuracies. Lakewood Cheder only charged a token amount? That never happened. And still doesn't.

amother

Sapphire ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 10:44 pm

amother Maroon wrote:

Are you talking Brooklyn? Because there were vouchers available for lower income families which paid a nice portion of the tuition. I know this because my parents took advantage of it.

If you're talking about Lakewood this is just not true. Aside for the fact that the town was tiny then and the cost of living was an absolute joke compared to now, tuition was definitely not $5000 a child. No way no how. I know this because it was way less than that when my first child started school here only ten years ago.

Re your other points, if anything people have smaller families today but there's no real way to know this without official statistics.

I do agree with you though that tuition was always a struggle. But it's become so much more than that. It's become something painful, a thorn in our communities that is destroying our relationships with our children's schools, our peace of mind and so much more.

And my kid who started school 12 years ago did have full tuition of $5,000 plus other fees.
10 years ago my son was 5500 plus fees.

amother

↑ Pistachio ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:13 pm

It's funny, by the way. The schools that give me the most agmas nefesh are not the ones I owe the most to. The schools I feel the most negativity towards are not the ones who gave me the smallest discounts.

It is literally about how I am treated by them.

The school that gives me no discounts but is trusting me to pay slowly over time, even though I have a huge balance, is the school I am the most grateful towards. They are the ones I plan on directing my maaser to once I finish paying up.

The ones who gave a generous discount but harass us constantly and make nasty threats, them I feel no desire to give any more than is in our contract.

(I should also note that the first school doesn't treat my children differently at all despite our huge tuition bill. One of the other schools switched my child to another track (they've been in the same one for years) because as late-paying parents, we have no recourse. And put another child entering school at the bottom of the list so they wouldn't have to accept them if they had an on-time paying student who applied later.)

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Sat, Sep 28 2024, 11:32 pm

amother Bellflower wrote:

I think they meant compared to other cities. 8k is a token amount compared to tuition in far Rockaway, Brooklyn, Chicago etc

amother

Apple

Yesterday at 12:14 am

No time to read through all responses, but a few thoughts:
- needs to be divided per city, the situation in brooklyn vs lakewood vs monsey vs fl vs chiacgo is so so diff. Each needs a week in the mishpacha on its own
- in brooklyn, chassidish, the school gets gov money from billing vouchers, food and lunch program, book program, transportation program, computers, desks etc.
I just question why then is our tuition still so expensive?
- every start of school year I think again - let school provide EVERYTHING including school supplies and seforim not only some school books, and charge the parents for it. Theyd get a much much better price, + seforim would be reused year to year instead of having to buy so much and go to genizah
- every school should find a side niche where to make $. Simcha hall, convention room, rent out lunchroom to shul shabbos etc
- somehow the administrators in boro park mostly live in brand new 3M houses.... And cry the schools povery

Signed,
I immensely appreciate the school, but would love some transparency

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Yesterday at 12:52 am

amother OP wrote:

I personally think that there are hundreds of millions of dollars collectively flowing out of our communities for standards that even the lower and middle class have adopted (10k in chosson kallah gifts, 8k shabbos sheva brachos, 13k total bar mitzvah costs, 3500 sq ft homes for families not making tuition, 3.5k per kid sleepaway camp, over 100 restaurants in Lakewood alone geared toward lower and middle class families and bochurim, brand name clothing and outerwear), as well as to niche organizations that are important but can’t compare to our schools, yet have better PR and donor appeal. Yes there are individual families who don’t do all of the above (though try telling your kallah she is not getting thousands in gifts because you are paying your tuition obligation) but collectively hundreds of millions is probably a lowball estimate.

If as a community we recognized this and most of that money were redirected to our schools it would largely solve or at least greatly help the problem.

The problem is that the schools have lost our trust. Between shaming parents who are truly struggling, demanding to know exactly how parents spend every dollar if they don't pay full while refusing to be transparent about their own financials, and favoring students from wealthy parents to the point where blatant disregard for rules is completely overlooked, they've ruined it for themselves.

So no one's running to give them our money. If we knew it would go directly to pay the rebbeim and hanhalah and NOT towards the owner's 350k salary, or towards a ridiculously luxurious building etc, maybe the community as a whole would feel more strongly about supporting our schools.

But our schools have ruined it for themselves.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 2:04 am

amother Maroon wrote:

Talk about over generalization. None of my kids elementary or high schools are anything like what you are describing. They still have a hard time raising enough funds.

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Yesterday at 2:07 am

amother OP wrote:

Talk about over generalization. None of my kids elementary or high schools are anything like what you are describing. They still have a hard time raising enough funds.

Obviously not every school is like this!

But if you're talking about a huge community-wide initiative that can raise the 10s of millions necessary to keep ALL our schools afloat (similar to the other initiatives mentioned in this thread), you're going to need better PR about all of our schools in general to get it off the ground.

And for the gazillionth time, no one wants to give tzedakkah to a business.

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Yesterday at 4:43 am

amother OP wrote:

No one is blaming, but where is the money falling from the sky for the parents who can’t afford it. It doesn’t exist. The parents ought not to be made to pay what they can’t afford and the money ought to magically appear but unfortunately it doesn’t. mortgages need to be paid. the schools utility bills need to be paid. the schools teachers need to be paid.

As much as the parents ought to have their kids, tuition costs covered, the money just isn’t there. The relatively small sums for Tomchei Shabbos can be raised. Tuition is completely different. An organization hundreds of times that amount or more would need to be funded to cover tuitions. That money just doesn’t exist.

The school is not blaming the parents. It is simply rightfully billing the parents so that the school can function. Blaming the school for lack of a mega communal tuition fund is simply shooting the messenger.

Yes, the schools do function as a communal organization, and do fundraisers. That allows them to give the meager scholarships they already do- it does not necessitate them wiping out everyone’s tuition bills and failing as an ongoing entity in the process .

It DOES exist. Let's not kid ourselves.

There are so many frum people worth hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions (if you don't beleive me, watch kosher money episodes where they are interviewed. Look at the 10+ million dollar shuls being built. Etc etc).

The .01% CAN support their community schools.

They just WON'T. it's cooler to build a brand new 10 million dollar shul with your name on a plaque then pay for schools payroll and utilities.

And it's so sad that the ripple effects across the community are coming to a head.

-stress within the middle income family's to the point of illness, shalom bayis issues, etc.

- lack of desire to continue having children because of fear that tuition can't be paid. I see this discussed here all the time, and often BC is suggested when the topic of not affording tuition comes up on here.

- ill will and friction between parents and their children's schools.

- rebbeim/morahs barely making a dignified living.

Etc. Etc.

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Yesterday at 5:10 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

I wonder what they would say if they are asked why.

Could it be that they are also getting that mixed message (mosad vs. business) from the schools? I mean, as wealthy as you might be, you're not going to give a million dollar donation to the Pesach program you just paid full price for.

No one is asking because we're all (including many rabbanim) somehow intimidated by rich people to a certain extent.

They should absolutely be asked and held to task for the chinuch of our children, ensuring the next generation, has proper foundations. It should be prioritized... As the Torah states.

If they truly cared, they'd do it in a way that makes sense to them. They could join the board. Create a task force to ensure things are handled in a responsible way. They could stop the nepotism. Have the books opened, demand transparency, whatever it takes.

They just have to care. But it's hard to care about something as humble and unassuming as a schools payroll when they could give money to "flashier" things that perhaps bring more recognition.

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Yesterday at 11:31 am

amother Blue wrote:

Huh? No one has a problem asking them for money when it comes to any other cause, but you think they stop short of asking for donations when it comes to school because of intimidation??

Your next point is just not true. Donating big money to a school can get you your name on the door, on a simcha hall, hakaras hatov ads in all the papers etc. What happens when you donate big bucks to Chai Lifeline or Atime or Links? Are there any fireworks? Does anyone even know about it?

You don't think maybe there's another reason at play?

You don't think it might be related to any of the following, as you yourself allude to:

-Mismanagement of funds on the part of the school

-Lack of transparency by the school (in contrast, every legal non profit needs to open their books online so there's never any hiding)

-School owners raking it in (in this thread alone, a couple that owns a school makes a combined nearly 500k!)

If you read the article, you'll actually see that a gvir said straight up that he doesn't want to give big bucks to a school because why should he support a business?

There was also a question asked in a local paper here in Lakewood on a related topic: Why do parents pay building funds when they don't own the school? They're essentially paying for the owner's down payment and mortgage. And then he walks away with the building and can do whatever he wants with it?
-

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Yesterday at 11:41 am

amother Maroon wrote:

I don't think I said no one want to ASK for money. but I'm asking, is anyone really explaining their responsibility to the community as stated in the Torah? We have guidelines

That's all. You can disagree with me. That's OK.

But facts are facts.

An average family with three-four kids making an average salary of 150k combined pretax CANNOT pay 13k+ per child in tuition. Period. Full stop. The math just doesn't math. Or as the young ones say "ya gotta change things up, buttercup" (lol)

And like I said, if the community gvirim don't feel comfortable giving to institutions with the way they're currently functioning then change things up. Make it honest and transparent. It's not impossible (that is, if they care enough).

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point, btw. Changes need to be made. Schools need to be transparent. But again, it's not something that can't be done.

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Yesterday at 11:48 am

amother Maroon wrote:

Again, I saw this point being brought up over and over again in the article.

Make the parents your shutfim and they will help you. Open the books and people will donate. People don't want to donate to a bottomless pit where they don't know exactly where the money is going.

These are very important points and cannot be stated enough times.

Hopefully articles such as this will open the door for more productive fundraising (besides for parents pushing themselves more to pay more tuition).

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Yesterday at 11:57 am

amother Bellflower wrote:

Huh? These weren't my points... I never mentioned parents being shuftim...

My point was, who is holding our community billionaires responsible for the chinuch of our generation when the poor and Middle class simply cannot? Who is guiding them on tzedaka k'halacha? Why isn't the spotlight being shone on them and why aren't they at the helm making changes that are clearly needed (to the obvious and glaring issues that you pointed out) ? Are rabbonim even pushing for this? Or are they just assisting in funneling 100 million dollars to kollelim across the world?

You don't have to agree with my question or point but please don't put words in my my mouth