Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

Chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 6:39 am

amother OP wrote:

Very location dependent. We grew up on Payless shoes, hand me downs, almost no takeout, day camp instead of sleepaway, junk cars, staycations etc. Most of my friends never flew on a plane unless they had out of town family. Homes were small and counters were Formica. A kiddush or shalom zachor meant a plate of homemade baked goods, not a $20-30 wrapped delivered platter. Wine for shabbos was cheap kedem stuff- period. No one had money for these things, tuition needed to be paid.

In the Lakewood I live in today even basic middle class will not suffice with most of the above. A 2-3 bedroom basement with central air and 10- 12k of furniture is a must to start out for most couples. No ikea and Walmart for me thank you. Most cars are late model and when buying a home 3000 sq ft newish construction is almost an expectation. We come up with 40k for the seminary experience, 70k for a wedding, but we have no money for tuition. Hmmm.

I live in Lakewood. Bought house before covid, put down payment of 25k , have 5 kids in 1730 sf home And I'm very happy! My kids shoes come from Westgate shoe gemach for $5, clothes from tottini outlet, kidichi outlet, junees on sale end season ((1 for $15, 2 for 20$). Mine mostly dejanew new tops for $10, and shoes from downstairs of step in elegance *for $20 with blue label. My furniture is second hand, just bought billy bookcase, most takeout I buy is pizza,never was on vacation. We do put money in savings because we live super super super frugal, have around 100k in savings account for chasunas.
I hate how much standards went up, and costs. Always wonder how much money (and where) people who have much bigger new houses make, and how they maintain their lifestyle. I count every penny, and consider myself pretty rich bc I have all I need ,and with all that I don't think parents have to go broke to pay tuition, too. I don't even plant to make any barmitzva, but people have to be realistic. School owners building buildings, too. Everyone is part of this gashmiyus process, people can't complain that instead of tuition people want to spend on something else, because it feels like Lakewood is all about gashmiyus. Tuition should not be family killer,no kids would appreciate or benefit from stressed parents venting out how tuition is crashing them. It might be it costs 11k to nachlas to educate a kid,but being super frugal and savy person,I also would want to see if they are doing best to cut their expenses. I do trust their accountant,but I trust my seichel,too. I asked a shaila if I have to pay full cost or can ask reduction, because hypothetically I do have savings, practically it's coming from being super cheap over years. Why I'm writing this --not everyone who saves money is rich. I asked a Rav if I'm considered rich, because I feel like I am). Current numbers I hear for everything-housing, furniture, clothes -its not doable! school owners R under crazy stress, I understand,but someone whose mother is principal in school told me that schools got a lot in covid funding,now it stopped,but they still want to keep same level. I would want to know if school is frugal with finances same way I am in my budget.I also asked shaila about if I can afford more kids. If rabanim endorse not going on bc, they should consider tuition as well. We send to Jewish school that is all about emuna and chinuch, right,so school owners should also understand that maybe I had 7 kids because I was told it's a right thing to keep having them, if they feel people are reckless in having kids but can't pay for them, maybe it's time to consult with daas torAh about this.literally meaning it, why won't school owners who r presumably frum people, go to rabeim in Lakewood, and ask "if you encourage people to be learning, and bring kids, how do you see schools being able to provide education if parents cannot cope?". I'm not sure I can afford one more baby because of tuition expenses (which r even higher for mesivta and high school).

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Yesterday at 6:44 am

I am 32 and grew up in Lakewood. Most of my friends including me had never been to Florida until after being married. High end restaurants did not exist here, you had to go to the city. Fancy trip for chol hamoed was a concert. Midwinter was snow tubing or skiing in the poconos if very fancy.
Our mothers didn’t get sheitels every other year. The styles stayed the same and the sheitels lasted 5 years. Clubs on Sunday were offered by the school, I think free of charge. We got two Shabbos outfits and had no idea who wore last season bought on sale.

Yes I was a self conscious teen but I worked through it and became a mature adult.

Now when applying to school for my dd my main criteria is that it should be a simple parent body. That ought to save us a lot of agmas nefesh. I hope she makes good friends who are happy with the small things in life and don’t have grandiose expectations.

My father made 80-100k (dh makes 110 now), my mother didn’t work. Tuition was 3-4k and groceries were much more affordable.

amother

Bottlebrush ↓

Yesterday at 6:55 am

amother OP wrote:

I am floored. What is it about your kids, your responsibility that people just don’t understand? Do you walk into the water company or the electric company and demand that they take only what you can give? That your Rav said to have the kids so it’s the gas stations problem to pay for filling up your 12 passenger van?

Yes, the school serves a community function. Yes, the schools raise money from donors to survive. But it is not a question of the school, being a business or a charity organization. Donors can not provide nearly enough to pay every kids way. Ultimately as the parent it is your responsibility.

Whether you can afford it or not is not ultimately the schools problem. It is certainly on the school to try to work with parents who are trying their hardest and to try to find donors who can help alleviate a parents staggering burden.

But this doesn’t mean that you are entitled to get a free ride, because you’re truly can’t afford to pay the bill. Ultimately it is you asking the school to help you pay your bill, not the other way around.

They can’t have it both ways
Either market as a business and charge what it costs you. This means no tax benefits no fundraising.
Or market your self as a non profit.
Non profits are not businesses I don’t pay non profits the cost of what they are doing.
And they get the tax benefits .

There is no other non profit that I am aware of that charges the cost of the services to the people they are assisting…
People who can afford it should 100% pay the price
Even if it means forgoing luxuries that they are used to.
But to people who can’t afford it- this is the reason the school is a non profit.
Another point they only spoke to the schools struggling
Schools that are legally booked as a school and not a congregation you can see their financials online.
Beis Tova in Lakewood
Owner has salary of over 350
Wife has salary of 107
School made profit of over a million

So some schools are like this article and some are making bank.

amother

Hunter ↓

Yesterday at 7:40 am

Wow this article is making me want to homeschool…or have a hysterectomy.

We live very simply.

We have 2 kids and are expecting BH, one kid has medical needs. BH for Medicaid but if we ever make “too much” for Medicaid, health costs would easily outrank tuition on our list of priorities. Obviously we want to pay tuition that we owe but not if it means forgoing essential medical care, food, or the mortgage for our 1400 sqf house that we bought before Covid for cheap.

One thing that jumped out at me, was one administrator talking about how the costs of everything have gone up so much, paper is three times more expensive now, and so on. So then why are schools wasting so much money on pointless extracurricular activities whose costs add up quickly?! They can’t demand that parents never buy themselves a coffee or a danish once in a blue moon, but then go and dump money into fancy trips, activities, GO, and more activities that raise the “fun standards” and the bar. You can’t have it both ways.

Personally, I would love to know how much the CEO of one of the schools mentioned is making. Somehow I suspect that the CEO’s paycheck is never late.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 7:54 am

amother Bottlebrush wrote:

The term for this is Black and White Thinking. If schools operated purely as a for profit business half of Lakewoods kids would be in public school or roaming the streets right now. A 5 million dollar building donation from a generous donor who knows that chinuch is the future of Klal Yisrael. 2.5 million raised by the dinner and private solicitations toward Rabbeim and Morahs salaries and operating costs. That’s what allows the school to continue to function with an average tuition of 7k.

Take away the donors and any parent who can’t pay 14k per kid is on the streets. That’s just not feasible. At the same time it’s absurd to say “if they raise 2.5 million a year from donors then it’s their responsibility to raise 10 million a year so that all the parents can pay 2k a year and have breathing room. That’s a beautiful dream but where are they supposed to raise another 7.5 million a year from?

Do you think the administrators and fundraisers say to themselves “hey I can raise 10 million this year no problem, after all, we are a non profit, but I’d rather sock it to the parents and make them pay 7k per kid on principle?”

Yes, schools are non profit and not businesses, but that doesn’t mean they can simply raise all the funds they need to stay open. Appreciate the fact that they are already shlepping to raise every dollar they can from donors for YOUR KIDS, and they simply have no choice but to bill you for the rest.

I am sure if you offer to go around for them and raise the dollar amount of your kids tuition from new funds from kindhearted donors - it’s for a non profit and chinuch so it must be easy, right?- they would gladly accept your fundraised sum instead of billing you for your kids tuition. Go ahead and let us know how it goes.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 7:57 am

amother Hunter wrote:

The owner of my daughters high school actually takes $0 salary. Others I’m aware of are vastly underpaid for the amount of hours and skill set and experience they bring to the table. You can bring in a $35 an hour guy to run your school and watch it run to the ground. Guaranteed. I’m sure there are outliers taking an outsized salary but they are far and away the exception not the rule.

Claiming that waste and excessive salaries are the cause of the tuition problem is easily disproved. Show me one Litvish school anywhere in town or out of town that is funded primarily from tuition and balances the budget while happily charging $2,500 or $3,500 families that can’t afford more. Or that charges $5000 across the board (without being funded by donors). There isn’t one. Are they ALL wasteful? Are the ALL mismanaged? Every single one? Really.

The answer is obviously that low affordable tuitions for all and a functional school don’t go together, no matter how frugal or competent the administration.

amother

↑ Fern ↓

Yesterday at 8:02 am

OP let's cuts to the chase-basically all your posts about it being YOUR KIDS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY are saying that having kids is a privilege for the wealthy.
Anyone too poor to have another kid should be on BC.
I have 3 kids. I've been on bc for a while and feel physically/mentally ready for another. But financially, al pi derech hateva, it's impossible. So I'm staying on bc because the baby would be my responsibility and I don't have the means to provide for another one. I can barely afford my reduced tuition for my 3 kids, there is no way I can afford another one. So I'm being responsible and not having another.

But if you ask a rav they say not to take financials into account and have the baby. But when you have the baby and can't afford the babysitting and then tuition it's your kid your responsibility. So we go in circles and get nowhere with no solution

amother

↑ Chestnut

Yesterday at 8:04 am

amother Fern wrote:

exactly! Rabonim say to not worry, then you are irresponsible one. I asked shaila, so I think daas torah should be responsible and held accountable in this situation,if they advise to keep having kids. Not to pay for me ,but share achrayus of this decision.

amother

↑ Hunter ↓

Yesterday at 8:06 am

amother Fern wrote:

Exactly!

amother

↑ Hunter ↓

Yesterday at 8:08 am

amother OP wrote:

Good for the owner of your kids' school then!

My point is not that the paper itself is the reason for the tuition crisis. My point is that if schools are nickel and diming parents, they need to be equally as judicious with their own costs. Kids will be fine if they have a picnic/barbeque instead of a full-day outing to some fancy activities place. Really. They will be fine.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 8:09 am

amother Fern wrote:

I personally think that there are hundreds of millions of dollars collectively flowing out of our communities for standards that even the lower and middle class have adopted (10k in chosson kallah gifts, 8k shabbos sheva brachos, 13k total bar mitzvah costs, 3500 sq ft homes for families not making tuition, 3.5k per kid sleepaway camp, over 100 restaurants in Lakewood alone geared toward lower and middle class families and bochurim, brand name clothing and outerwear), as well as to niche organizations that are important but can’t compare to our schools, yet have better PR and donor appeal. Yes there are individual families who don’t do all of the above (though try telling your kallah she is not getting thousands in gifts because you are paying your tuition obligation) but collectively hundreds of millions is probably a lowball estimate.

If as a community we recognized this and most of that money were redirected to our schools it would largely solve or at least greatly help the problem.

amother

↑ Fern

Yesterday at 8:17 am

amother OP wrote:

I hear. In the summer, several Gedolim from Eretz Yisroel came to America to raise millions for the yungeleit in EY because their government cut funding. I'm all for supporting torah, but why are we sending millions overseas when so many families in America are drowning and our mosdos are struggling? And I'm sure the yungekeit in EY are not being told to have less loss because of financials but I in America am not having another child because of financials

I apologize if this is disrespectful but I do think this is a huge issue that klal yisroel is able to raise millions for everything except the schools. It's not the struggling parents' fault that schools are having a hard time. It's the communal fault and we don't have strong leadership to address it

amother

↑ Hunter ↓

Yesterday at 8:18 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree that tuition should come before fancy anything. AND at the same time, there are many of us who aren't spending anywhere near that kind of money. My son's seudas bris was a couple of boxes of cheap pastries from the grocery store. My wedding gown (borrowed from a gemach) was $50 all-inclusive including laundering. Our clothing shopping is once or maybe twice a year at the thrift store (a shlep away, so factor in the gas costs if you want to) where we can buy the kids cheap used clothes for a teeny fraction of what they cost in "normal" (non-Jewish) stores. DH gets a "new" suit once every few years at the thrift store. My new clothing purchases are...wait for it...cheap cottong underwear.

Not everyone who is struggling is doing so because they are spending money on fancy vacations or new sheitlach or hats or shtreimels or expensive matching (uch why is this even a thing? sorry, I digress) outfits 3x a year. But even non-fancy things cost money. Cheap groceries (especially if you make too much for SNAP), regular utilities, water, all cost money. Teachers aren't the only ones whose salaries haven't correspondingly increased with inflation. It's so easy for a wealthy school CEO to blame "parents' lifestyle choices" when he's not the one stressing about whether he can or can't pay the water bill that month.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 8:28 am

amother Hunter wrote:

It’s not an individual level issue. Many individuals are frugal as can be. It’s a communal issue. Someone is patronizing those 120 restaurants and scores of takeouts in Lakewood as well as the high end clothing stores as well as everything I referenced above and in the aggregate it’s hundreds of millions of communal money that could go toward schools. Additionally even frugal folks like you end up being affected in so many ways by upped communal standards that force them to spend extra as well(chosson kallah gifts is just a small example).

amother

↑ Eggshell

Yesterday at 8:31 am

amother OP wrote:

How are the restaurant and clothing store owners supposed to pay their kids tuition if you want everyone to stop patronizing their stores? And this economy is terrible for restaurants and takeouts. Several have closed and others are really struggling.

Definitely agree about the chassan kallah gives, they’re ridiculous but we’re all forced to give them.

The expensive bar mitzvahs and sheva brachos are also so ridiculous but they are a great source of parnassa for many frum vendors who are then able to pay tuition. Same for the jewelery store owners.

The campaign to raise millions for kollel people in Israel was seriously tone deaf and disturbing. I think it raised 100 million, might be totally wrong about that. But our communities are supposed to come first according to Halacha. And if learning isn’t financially feasible anymore in Israel, they need to figure out how to rearrange society to cater to that. Taking our desperately needed funds and having our kids elementary schools shut down for lack of funds is crazy.

Same goes for the BMG funding recently. If kollel isn’t financially feasible, leave kollel and get a job. Do not take community funds! It’s insanity.

amother

↑ Bottlebrush

Yesterday at 8:35 am

amother OP wrote:

I disagree with you by stating this is black and white thinking.
This was stating the facts.
You don’t like them that is fine.
I think we are all in agreement that this is an expense that should be prioritized.
I agree that living a luxurious lifestyle and not paying full tuition is a horrible thing.
I am not yet up to the place of paying tuition
I daven to Hashem that I should always be able to pay full tuition
But becouse they are a non profit they do have a chiyuv(and we as a Klall also have this chiyav) to treat all families with respect and make it some what livable for them. You can’t compare into to rent ( that is very black and white thinking)

I know of families where there was no money( getting tomechei shabbos kids never got new clothes etc) and family couldn’t pay.
They sent all those kids home and wouldn’t allow them to come until it was paid up.
We have a serious issue if this is going on in the klall we live in.

But there are creative solutions.
I know the admin of Lakewood cheder and bais Feiga
He said we have an issue
We can’t charge parents more than they can afford . We also need to be able to pay our staff
They had the idea of turning their buildings into wedding halls.
A lot of schools are following their example

Maybe there should be an organization that is similar to tomechei shabbos that will help.
I don’t have an easy answer .
But asking people for money they don’t have is not the answer.
And I do think people should prioritize food and shelter before tuition

amother

↑ Hunter

Yesterday at 8:35 am

amother OP wrote:

So maybe kollel families (I know I'm opening a can of worms here, and I know that many kollel families live simply and are struggling) shouldn't be given coupons to the most expensive frum stores before Y"T AND also given a tuition break? Maybe whichever organization or individual wants to subsidize their new YT purchases, can use their head and give these families a giftcard to Target or Walmart or stores similar to where the rest of us shop. Don't spend crazy amounts of money on giftcards to stores that charge $500 for two kids' outfits (that will get dirty within half an hour of Y"T starting), raise the standards for everybody, and then complain "how can you make your kids the nebuch by them being the only kid in the class without [insert brand name here]? It's not kavod haTorah!" Lower the standards across the board. Somehow the gedolim like Rav Chaim zt"l didn't need their kids to be dressed fancy for "kavod haTorah."