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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:28 pm

My 8 year old daughter is getting sent out of class practically every day because she is disrupting the class and disturbing her classmates.

It started out before pesach with the teacher realising that there were times that she needed more attention than the teacher was able to give, so she gave my daughter the opportunity to go outside the classroom for 5-10 minutes and sit with one of the classroom assistants or other staff who were working there. Sometimes it was basically a way to take a break if she felt she needed to help regulate. There are sensory and fidget toys there and just a space to calm down. Other times the teacher sent her with the work she needed to complete, to either work with the assistant or on her own.
The teacher hoped that would give her the one on one attention, and that also, she would get bored of missing out on things in the classroom.
Unfortunately after pesach it only increased.

Her behaviour is getting worse.

The teacher has tried talking to her and encouraging her. There are positive reinforcements in the classroom. And there are school wide programs and rewards for good learning, behavior, midos etc.
The principal has tried having a conversation with her.
Nothing seems to be motivating her.

This only seems to be a problem with her morning teacher. Her afternoon teacher for limudei chol doesn’t have these issues.

Some background - she has always been a kid that explodes once she gets home, after holding it all together all day. But there weren’t really any issues in school - only at home.

She is still having these explosions every day.
She is quite sensitive and does get anxious.
We have taken her for therapy and OT, we recently tried something new, but didn’t see any progress so we stopped and we are in the process of finding someone to help.
I suspect adhd.

There has been some upheaval at home in the last year with one of my older kids having a hard time with their mental health. So everyone has been very understanding that she needs a bit of extra love and attention.
BH things on that front are starting to calm down.

After all this - my question…
We have a few weeks break now. I want to be able to give her and her teacher some ideas of what we can do to help support her and make her feel good in the classroom.
She is now being sent out basically every day. Often to sit in a different classroom.
She puts up a tough front, but I can’t imagine she feels very good about it or about herself.

So I’m looking for ideas?

(Thank you for reading!)

amother

Dill

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:35 pm

This sounds like ADHD possibility. With the diagnosis, a student can behave differently with every teacher based on their teaching styles and students motivation.

Are you willing to put her on meds for ADHD? She might really appreciate being in control of herself.
Speak to your pediatrician for referrals

amother

Candycane

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:38 pm

Definitely evaluate for adhd

amother

Catmint

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:45 pm

I don't exactly know how to help with the school aspect. Like you said it may be a learning issue. That would need other way to deal with it then if is an emotional problem.
You don't have to feel bad that her home life was rough for awhile, some kids are just born with a anxious tendency. Still now summer, most you could do is give her the attention she craved. So she's doesn't have to get it somewhere else. Make sure her life is ad calm and predictable as possible. Daven they pair her up next year with an experience teacher that will give her positive reinforcement. The teacher will have to know when to ignore and when to educate your daughter that her behavior is not appropriate. Hashem will help she will turn over a new leaf for the new school year.

*It could be adhd but you say she behaves during English. Unless school work is affected. Forget the label. You need to work on the behavior. Also interesting that the afternoon she's better behaved. Children with focusing issues I find the exact opposite they can't sit still the last hours of school. You also said the issue started pesach time. Her first grade teacher would have said something If she was that out of focus. I would see how she's doing next year. Possibly friction with the teacher.

amother

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:58 pm

amother Dill wrote:

We are in the process of getting referrals

amother

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:03 am

amother Catmint wrote:

We do try to keep home as consistent as possible, and try to give her positive attention.

We’re not in the northern hemisphere so we only have winter break now and then back to the same teachers until December.
I do think it is a bit of a clash with the teacher, but she (the teacher) is open to suggestions.

amother

Lemon

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 8:32 am

The harder time in secular subjects vs kodesh subjects makes sense. I have ADHD, and I had a much harder time with the kodesh subjects because my Hebrew wasn't so great, so that just made an extra barrier to concentrating. I wouldn't write off ADHD just because she has trouble in some subjects and not others. Also, even if it isn't affecting her schoolwork, that doesn't mean it isn't ADHD. My grades in school were always excellent, so it took a long time to get me a diagnosis because it wasn't affecting my schoolwork. Though it was definitely affecting me in school and at home, just in other ways.

Obviously it may not be ADHD, but it is worth evaluating for it and for other learning disabilities.

Lastly, have you tried asking your dd about it? Sometimes the child themself can give you some insight. Sometimes not, but it doesn't hurt to ask as long as you keep an open mind and don't judge or critique.

Anonymiss 1

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:05 am

Is she responsive to incentives? While I agree that an evaluation is important, there can still be progress made in the interim. If she’s responsive to incentives, it would be a good way to build up her self-esteem/confidence and help motivate her.

amother

Steelblue

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:07 am

The glaring thing here is that she can behave in the afternoons.

It usually gets worse as the day goes on, not better.

I think the onus is on the teacher.

amother

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:16 am

amother Lemon wrote:

Now that we want to have an evaluation it’s frustrating how slowly things move… wait lists are crazy at the moment.

It’s interesting, her teacher (limmudei kodesh) says that she’s not having any issues managing the work that’s expected. But my daughter insists that she can’t do some of the work - it’s too hard.

We have spoken to my daughter, many times. She gets worked up very easily so these conversations aren’t easy. According to her everything is someone else’s fault and ‘not fair’.

amother

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:18 am

Anonymiss 1 wrote:

I would love to try something, but she doesn’t get on board with it very often.

balance

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:25 am

Is there a way to contact you off-forum? I have some ideas that may help. Or you could PM me.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 5:34 pm

So for mornings vs afternoons, assuming it isn't a problem with the teacher or the material, which others on the forum have already mentioned, one idea that came to mind was diet - is her lunch more protein-filled than her breakfast? Even (or especially) if she does have ADHD, a high-protein, low-sugar breakfast is often beneficial.

teachkids

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 5:42 pm

amother Steelblue wrote:

The glaring thing here is that she can behave in the afternoons.

It usually gets worse as the day goes on, not better.

I think the onus is on the teacher.

Often kids with ADHD can absorb what they hear in English without 100% focus, but when they space out in Hebrew they miss everything.

Alternatively, a kid who struggles with Hebrew may act out then but be totally ok with English subjects.

It's possible there's an anxiety piece and she would benefit from preteaching at home so she can just listen and absorb a second time at school.

amother

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 7:05 pm

balance wrote:

Is there a way to contact you off-forum? I have some ideas that may help. Or you could PM me.

Thank you
I’ve sent you a pm

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Jun 27 2024, 7:30 pm

I find, as a teacher, that positive reinforcement is very encouraging.

What does this look like for me:

!) Some ways to help a child tolerate sitting when its difficult for them: wobble cushions, elastic bands, fidgets by desk, weighted vests and allowance to move around with limits in order it shouldnt disturb the class.

2) Sitting in BACK of the class. Less of what to turn around to and not so much space like the front to explore. Ive seen this work wonders for many kids.

3) When we look for intervention to help the child sit, we are assuming they can. Perhaps they cant? No matter which route is taken its important not to show the child frustration. A calm reminder of where she should be or have her go take a quick drink at water fountain to break up the lesson a bit.
Some children do well when working at a larger desk. I often offer the child that needs this that if they prefer to work by my desk or the table in the classroom , they may.

4.) Positive reinforcements. Prizes cheapen it in my opinion.
She can receive praise on her little efforts.
" I love the way ___ just walked into the classroom with a bright smile to start her day"
"Wow, ___ is pointing as she is saying brochos"
"Look how ___ came prepared with her pencil"

When looking for all to quiet down and follow instructions - instead of saying, "____ , its time to take your books out and be seated", eliminate calling by name. I find it far more effective to say "I am waiting for 3 more girls to have their book open to the page." They realize quickly who they are without drawing any attention (which often they will want the attention which leads to needing more so save the attention for the good little things.

They value being noticed SO much! Worth a try.

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