S/o kollel ppl should live simply

Aurora

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 2:48 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Agree
That said with 250k income I just wonder if one lives a jet-set lifestyle. Somehow I doubt it...

well, I for on am very willing to upgrade from my current income and give it a try!

that said, I don't know about jealousy, but am definitely seeing a lot of resentment on this thread. Are the people so frustrated also donating to a kollel and helping fund it?

Also, isn't it a bracha that a community is able to support so many scholars?

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 2:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

Working so hard, aren’t they entitled to a vacation?

Again, who on earth told you they aren't entitled to a vacation?
Are we speaking about a regular vacation which is standard in the community? Or a 5-star vacation abroad a few times a year?
You may do the 5-star alternative for all I know, la briout, but it speaks volumes what is truly important for you.

amother

NeonOrange

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 2:52 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

It's fact of life that kollel most of the times come with a financial sacrifice. One income isn't like two incomes. You have less. Does it makes sense to you?
A few ones learn in kollel and are from multimillionaires families. It exists but it's rare.
The question is: What is his/her focus?
As explained previously you CANNOT focus on both of them at the same time.

again - assumtions..

someone living above their means is a completely different topic and totally not specific to kollel or any one group.

like I said - most kollel wives I know work hard and do NOT live extravagantly (although its all relative) but there are quite a few that I know that make a tremendous amount of money BH and can live how they want..
some people get parental support (parents who give happily - not necessarily millionaires)

I agree a million percent that you cannot focus on gashmiyus and ruchniyus at the same time. That too applies to ALL yidden and it does not exclude anyone.
but it is an issue of bein adam lamakon and is a completely personal struggle that one has to work on and is literally none of your business.

again, if its bothering you - im sure its not bec your worried about their ruchniyus.

amother

Bellflower

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 2:58 pm

amother NeonOrange wrote:

okkk now were jumping from one accusation to the next.

no said anything about wives not working.. we were talking about kollel and luxury. Actually most kollel wives I know work VERY hard. and someone of them make a lot of money..

also.. there are some men who would really have no idea where and how their money is coming from (although I would presume that this is not a common situation)

but please this is exactly my point about the bad middos - its like you all NEED kollel people to be miserable and unhappy and poor in order to justify why youre not doing it?
if you are so confident in your lifes choices let people be!

No where did I imply this.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:00 pm

amother Junglegreen wrote:

Maybe they could. You’re not them. There were tzaddikim in gemara that did business alongside learning (or had passive income) and lived very lavish lifestyles.

Please. Don't even try to compare our level to tzaddikim in the Gmara.
Again, you can be a multimillionare. But what is your focus? Your money and your business or the Torah?
It's just believable how many here are so unwilling to answer this question, always trying to have BOTH. Sorry. You cannot focus on ruchnious and gashmious at the same time.

amother

Ebony

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:03 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

You keep saying that as if it's a hard and fast rule. Some people are capable of multitasking. It doesn't have to be a contradiction.

amother

Hyacinth

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:07 pm

amother Snapdragon wrote:

I think there is also a disconnect with the message that is frequented among us. Society is constantly hit upon collecting funds for kollel. There are multiple discounts exclusively for kollel. It lends the impression that society is supporting most of kollel people.

And then you turn around and see numerous kollel families living larger than the average working family. It doesn't connect with the message out there. If so many kollel people are managing beautifully and there are equal amount of poor people in all groups, why are we singling out to support kollel families and leaving others to fend for themselves.?

Maybe if we don't discriminate tzedaka based on kollel status, it would become a non-issue.

This.

amother

Junglegreen

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:08 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Throughout history there were poor talmidei chachomim rams rich ones. Someone can have a lot of gashmuis and also ruchnius. It’s not a contradiction. They can work together to bring moshiach.

unexpected

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:08 pm

Aurora wrote:

You and I must be reading different threads because I'm seeing people discussing the apparent contradiction of kollel ppl living lavish lifestyles and the other side is accusing them of jealousy and pettiness

amother

Ebony

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:12 pm

Living lavishly actually takes a lot less thought and time than living frugally. So if a kollel couple has the means and dont want to focus on gashmiyus so much then hiring somebody to design and decorate their house and plan their vacations is a lot less time consuming then bargain hunting for a couch.

amother

Lightblue

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:13 pm

This thread reeks of jealousy. and my husband has never been in kollel.

In the chassidish world it is less common to sit and learn. Often the ones that do learn for long years, are those married to daughters of wealthy families. So you know what? You’ll find many Torah yungeleit who are living on really high standards. So what? It’s beautiful and good for them. That’s what we call Torah igadulah bmokom echod. And guess what, people can be really refined Torah people even when wealthy.

If you can’t find it in yourself to fargin someone else’s lifestyle, time to look into yourself. You might think that your disguising your envy well, but most of us see right through it.

amother

Bellflower

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:20 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Kollel men being supported on wealthy standards, is not what torah ugadula b'makom echad means.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:32 pm

amother Ebony wrote:

You keep saying that as if it's a hard and fast rule. Some people are capable of multitasking. It doesn't have to be a contradiction.

Its a fact of life it's a contradiction.
multi-tasking is a poor comparison. It's a question Where is your mind and thoughts?
Either your mind is focused on gashmious or ruchnious. You cannot be focused on both of them at the same time.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:42 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

Torah yungerleit whose true priority and focus are Torah don't really pay much attention to the living standard. They heads are buried deep in the Gmara. They don't focus their mind on the next purchase. I would like to think the bathroom might be painted in pure gold. A true Talmid chacham wouldn't be impressed or exited. He may use it in good health but he knows he won't take it with him la olam haba.

Aurora

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:45 pm

unexpected wrote:

It does seem very petty. If someone resents it, then stop donating to it? And if you don't donate, then why are you trying to control how people spend money?

amother

Taupe

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:53 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

If you can afford it and aren't living like a wealthy person off other peoples charity go right ahead.

This. Of course, if you are working and have the means to support your family in a nice lifestyle. Go right ahead. What people resent is all of the Tzedakah that is raised so that Kollel people can have things before Yom Tov that my family can't afford when both my husband and I work full time. It sets a standard for others. My teen daughter wants certain labels of clothing that all of her friends who's fathers are in Kollel and Chinuch have.

amother

Snapdragon

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:59 pm

synthy wrote:

How is a family with a sahm different than a family where the wife earns a nice wage and the husband learns in kollel? Only the former is allowed to go on vacation?

It isn't. If funds are being raised to support the SAHM, questions would be similarlying raised.

joonabug

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:59 pm

everyone really should worry abt themselves and their own ruchnious and stop worrying abt how kollel families spend their money. you have no clue where that money is from or how much the wife is making. the same way you dont care if a rich working man goes on a vacation, you shouldnt care if a rich kollel man goes on a vacation. its not your business and not your cheshbon. it is clearly coming from a place of resentment and unhappiness with your own situation. yes it stinks if you need 2 salaries and youre barely making ends meet while they are doing well with only one, but that
is mazal and that is life.