S/o kollel ppl should live simply

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:25 pm

amother Carnation wrote:

The wife works by those other families too that cant afford vacations

Just saying how people look at it. My dh used to be in kollel nd there was a lot of shmoozing there as well it was much more relaxing. and then those same families buy million dollar houses while my dh is working and I live in a hole in the wall

That’s Mazel and up to HaShem. Doesn’t have much to do with one being in kollel and one working

amother

Clear

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

Who’s doing “nothing”? The wife who is working to support her family now or her husband who is “working to support his family in olam haba?”

It's this attitude that turns people off. What makes you think an erliche balebus isn't working to support his family in olam haba?
Being in kollel isn't an automatic ticket into olam habah.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:26 pm

To me, it’s because the two view points are incompatible. The values of kollel are not the values of comfort, designer, vacations, consumerism, but rather the kollel values are modesty, sensitivity, not being wasteful, knowledge that we are guests in our home countries and in this world, etc.

amother

Junglegreen

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:29 pm

People on imamother have an image in their head of an ideal Kollel family being poor. The wife looking worn out, driving a minivan with duct tale holding it together, the kids wearing totn shoes.
When they see a kollel family that doesn’t look like that they find it disturbing.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:30 pm

amother OP wrote:

Why does my husband sitting in kollel mean that I’m promoting any sort of life style? He loves to learn and we’re able to make it work atm. I’m not trying to tell anyone that I’m any better than them or that my torah life is more authentic than someone working. We’re just doing what works for us. I shouldn’t live nicely and go on vacation because of that?

It's a fact kollel is a life style whether you like it or not.
Nobody is denying you living nicely (what ever that means) or going on vacation.
*True Bnei Torah* are focused on ruchnious and with Torah values.
If you drip in diamonds and planning multiple 5-star vacations abroad several times a year then your focus your life on pure gashmious. Even if DH learns Torah full time.
What is YOUR focus?

amother

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:32 pm

I am not better or holier than anyone. I’m not saying that no one else has olam haba chas vshalom. And I’m not even saying I take vacations! Irl no one would ever think I’m “bosting”. All I’m wondering if why people get upset when someone in Kollel can afford nice things as if it has to be that kollel people = poor and should live off of help.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:33 pm

amother Junglegreen wrote:

In Israel yes. It's default to be poor if you are kollel family but kollel kids are not dressed in tatters.

mha3484

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:37 pm

No its not about being poor, I know plenty of kollel families who are far from poor, its about tastefulness. There are large parts of the klal where the concept of being tasteful in your approach to gashmius has gone out the window. The one small part where its still alive and well at least where I live is among the more yeshivish. Its very disheartening when you feel even that is slipping away.

amother

Zinnia

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:41 pm

A person who spends his day learning should know better than to let his wife raise the standard or help upkeep an impossible standard for most families. If you work very hard and make a lot of money you should be tzanuah about it. And if your husband sits and learns Torah but doesn't understand basic tznius and allows his family to live a showy lifestyle then obviously his Torah learning is not really sinking in.

amother

Snapdragon

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:44 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think there is also a disconnect with the message that is frequented among us. Society is constantly hit upon collecting funds for kollel. There are multiple discounts exclusively for kollel. It lends the impression that society is supporting most of kollel people.

And then you turn around and see numerous kollel families living larger than the average working family. It doesn't connect with the message out there. If so many kollel people are managing beautifully and there are equal amount of poor people in all groups, why are we singling out to support kollel families and leaving others to fend for themselves.?

Maybe if we don't discriminate tzedaka based on kollel status, it would become a non-issue.

amother

NeonOrange

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:45 pm

imo its jealousy plain and simple.

when you see peole getting things that you dont have (and it seems to you that you work triple as hard for whatever it is..)

we're all human and we all struggle with human feelings. but at least acknowledge that this comes from not such nice places inside of you.
it reflects worse on you than on the kollel family.

amother

Snapdragon

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:45 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

This! Why are you learning Torah? Is it because it lends a status, or because you want to live a true Torah lifestyle?

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:49 pm

amother OP wrote:

AFAIK nobody on this thread, neither on the base thread has said kollel people shouldn't buy nice things our not take a vacation. No one.
You can, IMHO have very nice things and take vacation.
The question is: What's your focus?
Torah learning chinuch and Torah values?
Or is your mind busy with your next vacation and a brand name garment?
You can focus on gashmious. You can focus on ruchnious. But you CANNOT focus on both at the same time.
Which ones is your 1st priority?

amother

Jade

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:54 pm

How about this analogy:

Let's say you know a family that is dedicated to classical music. Dad is working on his 5th or 6th doctorate in music related studies. He really knows a lot about music!

Now let's say you live next door to this family who is dedicating their lives to music. You'd think that would be nice, right? The beautiful melodies of classical music would be wafting accross the lawn. Gorgeous! But no. The music coming out of the open windows of that house is the most hideous, discordant, nails-on-the-blackboard music you've ever suffered through. They say they love classical music, they're dedicating their lives for the study of it!, but day in and day out you have to put up with hearing horrible, painfully ugly music.

It's obviously not a perfect analogy, but this is the feeling I get when I meet fancy 'kollel' couples. You proudly state that you've dedicated your life to Torah. Fine. But then don't be surprised if it feels jarring and discordant when you tell me you eat out at Salt, vacation in Mexico, just traveled to Italy to source the correct tiles for your new kitchen, and only shop at La Di Da for your kids.

There's nothing wrong with any of those behaviors. But they don't match well with your supposed dedication to Torah. Consumerism, living a life of opulent luxury, it just doesn't match.

When your living large and are in Kollel, it makes me think that your husband probably learned a lot of Torah, but isn't applying much of it to your lives. So what, in the end, is your Torah study worth? It's meant to be lived, not just read.

Bnei Berak 10

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:55 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

In Israel yes. It's default to be poor if you are kollel family but kollel kids are not dressed in tatters.

[I]
Those who hug my post should look at statistics. BB jerusalem and other chareidi cities are the poorest in Israel. Its a fact.

amother

Banana

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:57 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

So if a man has no control over his wife's spending, should he leave Kollel?