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-> Working Women
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amother
Blue
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 Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:29 pm
I didn't go back to work after having a baby ( not my first) because I had a crummy job and I had a neighbor ask me on a daily basis, maybe to make conversation?, "so you went back to work?". I got fed up one day and answered, "yes. Full time."
"Really?" shocked.
"Yes. Taking care of him," pointing to my toddler.
She never asked again.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:31 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I don't need to work because my friends do, I'm saying everyone works so all I get are questions and judgment. Plus no one else is around to spend time with during the day.
Really I just wish it was normal or even respected to not work and "just" be a mother. |
Sounds like 2 separate issues going on what everyone thinks which I as you get older you learn to not care so much about and that you may actually be bored. There are plenty of productive things to do without having to go to work. Look for opportunities to fill your time that will also provide some social interaction as it sounds like thats what your missing. So many volunteer opportunities around. If you post your location im sure lots of imas here may have ideas
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amother
Forestgreen
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:34 pm
I live in a mixed neighborhood. The MO women mostly don't work either.
I think it's mostly the yeshivish/litvish crowd that works.
You don't have to become chasidish. You just have to be comfortable in your own skin.
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Fox
↓
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:37 pm
This thread points to a difference between Chassidish and non-Chassidish communities that goes far, far deeper, IMHO.
It's not really a matter of working outside the home or not. It's about how "home work" is perceived and regarded. One of the striking differences between the Chassidish veldt and other communities is that work in the home is regarded as difficult, challenging, and important.
Whatever we might say, we don't treat "home work" in the same way in the Litvish, "JPF," or MO world. We say how important homemaking is, but we don't really treat it that way. We treat it as an "also-ran" -- something that can be rushed through with as little effort as possible. We don't necessarily school our daughters in it -- though we'll encourage them to take advanced math or science courses. We denigrate women who are "only interested in recipes."
Understand that I'm not talking about what women actually do; I'm talking about how we regard it. We brag about making "simple" food and "hacks" we can use to spend less time or effort on housework. It's not that simple food is less choshuve than elaborate food; it's the fact that we are bragging that we spend our energy on more high-value activities.
Obviously, this is a generalization of a larger society. There are plenty of Chassidishe women who aren't into being balabustas, and there are JPF women who are. But looking at societal attitudes, there's a discernible difference.
And that, I think, is what the OP is picking up on. Like so many women in modern society, the vast majority of women in the Litvish, Yeshivishe, JPF, and MO communities are terrible misogynists. If a particular activity is associated historically with women, they consider it lower in status and importance. Hard to get much more anti-woman than that.
I've often said that women will be equal not when 51 percent of them occupy corner offices, but when executive recruiters demand that candidates show "five years of homemaker experience or the equivalent."
Those of us outside the Chassidishe veldt see that, whatever legitimate problems they have as individuals or whatever dissatisfactions they feel with their communities, Chassidishe women know their value. Some work; some don't. Some are old-style balabustas; others rely on shortcuts and take-out food. But they know that they're contributing something valuable to their families and to the world. It's a lesson the rest of us desperately need.
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amother
Lightblue
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:38 pm
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Who says it’s questioned and looked down on to work? I work a fancy corporate job and would LOOOVE to be SAHM. It’s just not in my cards right now
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amother
Watermelon
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:45 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I don't know how they manage but I know that chassidish women don't have the pressure or expectation of working outside the house.
In my community most women work. I don't work for various reasons and I hate that this is questioned and looked down on. Why can't it be enough to just run my home and family? Why are my finances and worthiness out on the chopping block because I don't work? I am constantly getting comments and questions about this crazy thing, being a SAHM. Am I not bored? What am I going to do when all my kids are grown? Don't I want to do something? Or be something? What do I do all day? How come I don't contribute financially? Am I depressed? If I'm not depressed oh but you will be soon because this is not normal, you need to DO something.
Chassidish ladies who don't have babies at home, what do you do with your time? Are you depressed or feel worthless? Are you ok with the parnassa responsibility falling on your DH only? |
So you don't want to be chasidish you want to live among people who aren't judgemental. That's the opposite of chasidish!
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amother
NeonBlue
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:46 pm
| amother Watermelon wrote: | | So you don't want to be chasidish you want to live among people who aren't judgemental. That's the opposite of chasidish! |
That's super kind.
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amother
Coral
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 1:48 pm
| amother Hotpink wrote: | | With all the threads bashing different sects of chassidish, this is definitely one thing they are in a sense lucky about. |
70% of us work 
I don't think it's about community or sect, it's supposed to be an individual decision where outsiders such as friends and family do not get to way in!
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amother
Babyblue
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:01 pm
I get told that all the time most of the girls my age work bec they married kollel. I’m one of the few sahm moms in my grade I get asked all the time how I’m not bored what I do all day and how I should get a job so I see more people
I wish I can shout it out loud. Working at home is a full time job. Not a cute thing we’re not playing games while you work we’re talking care of our families cooking cleaning laundry appointments… stop the judgment this is a lady’s job to take care of house and kids not to work and take care of the house and kids. If you must work then you must but it’s not ideal so stop making it like it is
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:11 pm
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I'm a sahm. The word is 'relaxed' (not bored). I also have time to visit my very lonely grandparents and great aunts. Most of Young adults are too busy for that... They so appreciate it. We are far from wealthy, Money is super tight. No babies at home. Husband has a very packed schedule so all household responsibilities are on me. I am bh not sick , anxious or depressed. I don't have adhd so I would manage if I worked but I don't need to answer to anyone.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:16 pm
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Yeah I dont find this at all. I think most of us consider it a luxury to be a stay at home mom that most of us wish we could afford it. In certain communities people work off the books and other shenanigans that make this dream a possibility.
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imaima
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:20 pm
| Fox wrote: | This thread points to a difference between Chassidish and non-Chassidish communities that goes far, far deeper, IMHO.
It's not really a matter of working outside the home or not. It's about how "home work" is perceived and regarded. One of the striking differences between the Chassidish veldt and other communities is that work in the home is regarded as difficult, challenging, and important.
Whatever we might say, we don't treat "home work" in the same way in the Litvish, "JPF," or MO world. We say how important homemaking is, but we don't really treat it that way. We treat it as an "also-ran" -- something that can be rushed through with as little effort as possible. We don't necessarily school our daughters in it -- though we'll encourage them to take advanced math or science courses. We denigrate women who are "only interested in recipes."
Understand that I'm not talking about what women actually do; I'm talking about how we regard it. We brag about making "simple" food and "hacks" we can use to spend less time or effort on housework. It's not that simple food is less choshuve than elaborate food; it's the fact that we are bragging that we spend our energy on more high-value activities.
Obviously, this is a generalization of a larger society. There are plenty of Chassidishe women who aren't into being balabustas, and there are JPF women who are. But looking at societal attitudes, there's a discernible difference.
And that, I think, is what the OP is picking up on. Like so many women in modern society, the vast majority of women in the Litvish, Yeshivishe, JPF, and MO communities are terrible misogynists. If a particular activity is associated historically with women, they consider it lower in status and importance. Hard to get much more anti-woman than that.
I've often said that women will be equal not when 51 percent of them occupy corner offices, but when executive recruiters demand that candidates show "five years of homemaker experience or the equivalent."
Those of us outside the Chassidishe veldt see that, whatever legitimate problems they have as individuals or whatever dissatisfactions they feel with their communities, Chassidishe women know their value. Some work; some don't. Some are old-style balabustas; others rely on shortcuts and take-out food. But they know that they're contributing something valuable to their families and to the world. It's a lesson the rest of us desperately need. |
💯💯💯👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:28 pm
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I was a SAHM for years but I had no cleaning help and no childcare or preschool. I will admit that I judge women who don't work, don't stay at home with their kids and have cleaning help. But, at the end of the day, what I think or feel doesn't really matter in someone else's life
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:33 pm
| Fox wrote: | This thread points to a difference between Chassidish and non-Chassidish communities that goes far, far deeper, IMHO.
It's not really a matter of working outside the home or not. It's about how "home work" is perceived and regarded. One of the striking differences between the Chassidish veldt and other communities is that work in the home is regarded as difficult, challenging, and important.
Whatever we might say, we don't treat "home work" in the same way in the Litvish, "JPF," or MO world. We say how important homemaking is, but we don't really treat it that way. We treat it as an "also-ran" -- something that can be rushed through with as little effort as possible. We don't necessarily school our daughters in it -- though we'll encourage them to take advanced math or science courses. We denigrate women who are "only interested in recipes."
Understand that I'm not talking about what women actually do; I'm talking about how we regard it. We brag about making "simple" food and "hacks" we can use to spend less time or effort on housework. It's not that simple food is less choshuve than elaborate food; it's the fact that we are bragging that we spend our energy on more high-value activities.
Obviously, this is a generalization of a larger society. There are plenty of Chassidishe women who aren't into being balabustas, and there are JPF women who are. But looking at societal attitudes, there's a discernible difference.
And that, I think, is what the OP is picking up on. Like so many women in modern society, the vast majority of women in the Litvish, Yeshivishe, JPF, and MO communities are terrible misogynists. If a particular activity is associated historically with women, they consider it lower in status and importance. Hard to get much more anti-woman than that.
I've often said that women will be equal not when 51 percent of them occupy corner offices, but when executive recruiters demand that candidates show "five years of homemaker experience or the equivalent."
Those of us outside the Chassidishe veldt see that, whatever legitimate problems they have as individuals or whatever dissatisfactions they feel with their communities, Chassidishe women know their value. Some work; some don't. Some are old-style balabustas; others rely on shortcuts and take-out food. But they know that they're contributing something valuable to their families and to the world. It's a lesson the rest of us desperately need. | I was with you until the executive recruiters demanding job applicants to have homemaking experience. Firstly- how would that be relevant for most positions and secondly, I assume this goes for male and female applicants? Thirdly, who is the judge of that? Snoop dog or Martha Stewart? What job would this be relevant for. It's just so absurd
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amother
Navy
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:35 pm
I'll echo "Pear" who wrote an idea to reply to if you work:
, “thank God I don’t need to work right now. I’m so grateful I get to focus on taking care of my family. And surprisingly no I’m not bored Smile “ that would change the whole dynamic.
I am a SAHM, money is tight and we receive help from our parents. I feel pressure mainly internally. I don't have many children, & just one of them is young enough to currently be home during the day. The pressure is due to how expensive life is & the fact that we receive help, & feeling bad that I'm not contributing. My dh would like if I worked, but BH doesn't pressure me to.
I don't get bored at all, I usually wish I had more time in fact, & tend to feel that working might negatively impact my capacity as a wife, mother & homemaker, but I'm not totally sure since I haven't done it before.
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amother
Springgreen
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 2:40 pm
| amother Orchid wrote: | | It's so sad that it has become the norm that women are being looked down at for not working. Mothers work 24/7 as is, without an outside job. We're human, we're 1 person. We're expected to have the kids, raise the kids, run the home, shop & clean & just keep ourselves & our families alive. Appointments and errands and laundry and cooking and carpool and all else. Why are we expected to have a job on top of all this? Are women supposed to be above human? No one ever expects this of a man & man won't be able to accomplish all this even without them working in addition to all this.... |
This!!!
I wish I was a sahm. I would never be bored!! I’m drowning right now working part time and taking care of the home and kids.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 3:03 pm
I am not bored, I am busy with chessed and with my family and home. I'm the one people turn to for last minute favors, childcare, meals, community volunteer work etc. I help my aging parents and spend a lot of time on the phone giving people advice on all kinds of things. I have special needs children and a spouse with ASD, my mornings and evenings and weekends are incredibly draining and stressful.
10 years ago I had a trauma that impacts my ability to remember things, focus, or work with details and I could not keep a job immediately after, I made so many mistakes, I couldn't go back and just turned my focus to my family.
I sincerely believe that this is what hashem wants from me, but the comments and questions and judgements are hard. It's like I'm selfish or stupid for just doing "women's work".
My youngest just started school so the judgement is amped up. No we aren't wealthy at all and yes I have some cleaning help (for the hardcore things).
Maybe I'm imagining this but I think if I were in the chassidish world my schedule would be considered fulfilling and beautiful. In my community it's busy work or it's "oh you know you can do all this and work, most women do".
I don't need to explain to anyone and I don't but I wish there would be acceptance for all kinds of lifestyles. Why do we NEED to be a shmatta? Why do we NEED to do something or be something?
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amother
DarkRed
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 3:05 pm
In my childs playgroup there's a 5 year old who stayed home until the 5th bday. I was shocked. My child stayed home until the 3rd birthday and I got comments all the time. Why aren't you working, kids don't need their mom all the time, they need friends. Do you wanna stay home forever etc.
This mom... she just didn't care and does her thing. She doesn't work. They seem financially comfortable. Nice car, nice home, kid has nice clothes. The husband seems really caring, picks up the kid regularly aswell. I see the mom often during the day, taking walks, grocery shopping. All relaxed. And I am JEALOUS. Because I really took those comments to heart. I wouldn't have kept my child at home until 5. Because I would have been ashamed not to work because a 5 year old "doesn’t need their mom all the time". And you know what, she is right. It's noones business and it's her life and she is living it the way she wants to. And I should have told those ppl exactly that.
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amother
Mistyrose
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 3:11 pm
You're welcomed to be chasidish! I'm chasidish, I work, dh works...
I don't have to...but I want to not be poor
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amother
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Mon, Jan 13 2025, 3:14 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Its not my friends making comments it's everyone. Every time someone asks me what I do or it comes up in conversation, there's the comments and judgement. There is an expectation to "do something" outside the home.
If you are home your either sick, lazy, a loser or a combination of all of these.
Even my kids are embarrassed that I don't work. |
I understand what you’re saying but also just saying that there are plenty of other social pressures on chassidish women.
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