S/o potching with explosive children

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children

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amother

OP ↓

Yesterday at 8:13 am

If you have a higher needs child, explosive child etc, I’m wondering if you potch and if you think it’s effective?

I have a child with adhd and anxiety (potentially ocd, that’s something we are looking into now). She is explosive, extreme, moody, demanding, etc. there are frequent meltdowns, hurled insults, yelling at siblings and parents, occasional physical fight but bH not often. She is also wonderful and capable and loving and talented, and so much more, but for the sake of this thread that’s not what we are discussing!

We don’t potch her, it’s not something we believe in at all. But on a different thread someone said that she has one child who needs to be parented that way and it received many likes. So I want to hear your thoughts! How do you parent your explosive child? What have you found to be affective?

This is specifically for the more extreme explosive children. Not highly special needs, and not typical children who occasionally act out as all kids do.

amother

Vanilla

Yesterday at 8:23 am

I have a child like this.
I never smacked them but dh did. The smack was effective in that it snapped them out of their fight-flight stupor.
It was not effective in preventing it the next time around. Because consequences don't work on that level of brain dyaregulation.
Also since this is a child who always sees themselves as the victim, I didn't want to give them any fodder for that belief and tried extra hard to stay squeaky clean.
But sometimes I wonder... parenting a kid like this makes you question everything.

amother

Blush

Yesterday at 8:36 am

I have a child with ADD, sensory issues, much more challenging in many ways to raise. Child is now a teen.
I have a sibling whom I think my child takes after in many ways. Growing up, my sibling drove my parents nuts, and their tools in parenting were limited. Their go to was to potch (and worse). I remember my sibling being hit and screamed at constantly.
As a teen (and now as an adult) sibling had depression, moods, threatened suicide...still does. Threatens to leave family, to disappear, lots of dysfunctionality and issues, kids with issues, such a mess.
My take as older sibling was to parent my child differently. has not been easy, but positive parenting, lots of talking, modeling, trying to teach more flexible thinking. Lots of davening. Got alot of professional advice on parenting my child.
But my child is so much more functional in every way, and BH no mental health issues so far. Doing well in school, lots of friends, very normal/functional.

So my take is - an explosive child needs so much more. They internalize pain very deeply so a potch does even more damage (IMVHO).

giftedmom ↓

Yesterday at 8:39 am

My kids are all high needs to some extent. I don’t discipline much, but enough that they know what the red lines are.
I really cannot afford to raise kids with the notion that violence towards a parent is ever okay. Both for my sake, their sake, and the sake of their future spouses.

amother

Lily

Yesterday at 9:15 am

I have a child with ADHD and anxiety with oppositional tendencies and lots of trouble with emotional regulation. He also has rejection sensitive dysphoria, so harsh parenting is like a knife in his heart. It took DH several years to realize that he doesn’t just need to be “put in his place “ and come around to a gentle parenting approach. There were at least one or two times when he potched DS and it only made things so much worse. It hurt DS to the core and caused him to try to take revenge. BH since then we have found an amazing therapist who has guided us and DS is doing worlds better.

TwinsMommy ↓

Yesterday at 12:30 pm

No, I didn't hit my kids to show my kids that hitting people is wrong. I have SUPER high needs (special needs) twins, one of whom is STILL super aggressive at age 18. When he bites me am I tempted to bite back, especially if I'm still in pain a week later? You bet. Do I? NO!

I wasn't high needs but was spanked all the time as a kid. I lost all respect for my parents.

People in our community tell us our kids are the way they are because we don't abuse them. Yeah. I'd like to see some of these people try to raise our kids for just a week (WITHOUT spanking or ANY abuse).

If we WERE to spank our kids? They'd simply spank back--- MUCH harder. Do I think spanking TYPICAL kids is ok? Also no.

↑ giftedmom ↓

Yesterday at 12:33 pm

TwinsMommy wrote:

You’re allowing an adult man to abuse you. The fact that he’s your son and special needs doesn’t make it okay. This is what happens when we normalize children hurting parents.

↑ TwinsMommy

Yesterday at 12:48 pm

giftedmom wrote:

You’re allowing an adult man to abuse you. The fact that he’s your son and special needs doesn’t make it okay. This is what happens when we normalize children hurting parents.

Because I don't abuse him back I'm allowing it and normalizing it? I have him on multiple medications...... psychiatry....... talk therapy...... we've done wraparound centers, IHBT, ABA therapy, special ed schools, special ed vocational programming.....

Yup, because I don't beat the hell out of him, it's MY fault.

amother

Blue

Yesterday at 12:49 pm

Dd 15 fills all criteria of DMDD but I have never lifted my hands to her she deserved it plenty

↑ giftedmom

Yesterday at 1:02 pm

TwinsMommy wrote:

I didn’t say it’s your fault. I said you’re allowing it. Clearly it’s still happening.

amother

↑ OP

Today at 4:26 pm

Ok so I see it’s pretty clear cut on this thread that potching doesn’t help. So I’m scratching my head as to why that comment on the other thread had so many likes!

amother

PlumPink ↓

Today at 4:38 pm

I have one explosive child. I’m ashamed to say I’ve hit back but only from self defense… yes she will end up in tears and then I have to comfort her for a while but the violence is stopped. The violence is not only directed at me but at her siblings. She has left marks from scratching and hitting. I can’t leave a two year old in her path.

I am not trying to defend my use of physical force. For the most part I try to just restrain her but on rare occasions she hurts someone terribly and I’ve pitched. Yes, it works to stop the behavior for the time being. I wish there was another way. Maybe Imas on this thread with similar children can advise what is the best way to stop a raging, violent child besides violence. It is not logical to me. I don’t want to be a parent who potches. I need another way.

When we discuss things like in the book Explaive Child she can understand. But when she’s triggered into a white hot rage… I need to protect the others. Hitting is not my first line of defense.

amother

Plum ↓

Today at 5:00 pm

I used to hit my oldest. Far, far too often.

He was an incredibly intense and stubborn child, and I could not stay regulated while trying to maintain the “authority” and “consistency” and “control” I thought I needed to display. I also had horrible post-partum depression when he was 3 years old, and that made me an even worse version of myself, drowning in self-loathing and fear of what I was becoming.

I would often find myself utterly desperate and exhausted after things like dealing with hours-long tantrums, holding his bedroom door closed as he fought me when he kept coming out of bed, getting bitten and scratched… and in return, I have to admit that I hit him back.

When slapping his hands didn’t work, I slapped his face.
I lifted him up and held my three year old against the wall as I yelled in his face.
When he fought me in the bathtub, I’d splash water in his face and watch him sputter.
I once kept him home from school because I was scared his teachers would see the red handprint I’d left on his face.

I felt like a monster and I knew was breaking the child that I loved, but wasn’t that what I had to do???? Wasn’t I supposed to have my own child under control????? Was I going to get it wrong no matter what I did????

DH wasn’t very helpful and I have to give myself credit for getting myself into therapy. Slowly slowly things got better for myself - accepting that I couldn’t necessarily change my child’s behavior, but I could control myself.

And it’s been scary at times, when he would get violent. Watching him beat up his younger brother, having him hit me and break things. But I felt stronger knowing that I had a firm boundary in my own heart and I would find a way through this without hitting my son.

I had times that I held him like a human straight jacket, times that I locked myself and my younger kids in another room or in my car. Long periods that all the knives and matches in the house were hidden and I had crisis care centers on speed dial.

But we got through it, day by day.

And over time, our relationship got better. I took it as a sign of healing that he could confide in me when he was feeling angry and depressed himself. I was strong enough to have bedside conversations with him and be his rock when my 11-12 year old would say he wanted to die, or asked how I would react if he killed a sibling. I was getting support for myself, I was getting support for him, and by G-d was I lucky that he thought of me as a safe person to say all of this too. Can you imagine if he hadn’t had his mommy to talk to??

My son is 15 now, and my journey with him has included so much therapy for both of us. Learning that he is autistic (and not just a “kid who needs firm boundaries” like I was told when I got him a neuropsych eval at age 6) made me realize it wasn’t only my fault. And when a psychiatrist prescribed antipsychotic meds to keep his moods in check, it was one of the most validating phone calls of my life. I wasn’t dealing with a normal kid. I hadn’t ever been dealing with a normal kid.

Anyway.

My second child is also autistic, and off-the-charts ADHD. My oldest is very insistent that if I would punish his brother more often, it would “fix” him. He has literally cried that I was “too hard” on him and have overcompensated to be “too soft” on his brother. He sees his brother getting expelled from one school after another and says if I loved his brother, I would hit him too. That it would make him “normal”. That if I didn’t do it, he would have to. 😣

And that hits so hard and so deep and thank G-d I still see a therapist twice a month.

It’s such a hard tightrope. They are very different people with different needs. My 15 year old isn’t a parenting expert. All I can be to him is an example of someone who is trying to be better every day.

amother

Moonstone

Today at 5:00 pm

I genuinely don’t understand how you teach a child they can’t hit if you hit them….

amother

↑ PlumPink ↓

Today at 5:06 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

I genuinely don’t understand how you teach a child they can’t hit if you hit them….

Do you have a violent child?
How do you deal with this?
What are your methods?

amother

↑ PlumPink ↓

Today at 5:08 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

Plumpink this was so raw and real. My child is much younger but I’m afraid of a future where this could get worse. Besides the rage, what other signs of ASD were there? Mine doesn’t seem to have ASD or ADHD. Just rage. And the rest of the time she is really sweet and wonderful but when she gets triggered…. Yes I’ve also locked myself with my other kids in a room while she is destructive. But it’s hard to get her to stop.

ETA: I meant Plum! I quoted myself by mistake!

amother

↑ PlumPink ↓

Today at 5:10 pm

Duplicate

amother

Butterscotch ↓

Today at 5:11 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

Explosive child only takes you so far. If your child doesn't have the skills to calm themselves down, then all the agreement in the world won't work.

For the times, when you feel you have no other choice, can you try throwing cold water at her face instead? It's not ideal either, but it's still better than hitting. The goal isn't to inflict pain or be violent. The goal is to shock her system out of her rage. Ice water works very well for that. You can explain that to her. Hopefully she can do it herself, splash her face with very cold water or even submerge her face in water. Both are very effective to get down from 100 to a more manageable state. And until she's ready to do it herself, you can help her. (By splashing her face with cold water, never ever force a child's head into water. That's dangerous. It's a good skill to teach her to do herself for when she is willing but never ever force it physically.) Again, you're not trying to hurt her, you're trying to help her calm down.

A long-term goal is to come up with better ways that are realistic for her calm down and for you to help her calm down.

amother

↑ PlumPink

Today at 5:16 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Maybe I’m crazy but it seems so much more abusive to splash cold water on her face!
But you know what maybe I will ask her when she’s calm, if she thinks this is a good idea. We’ve tried code words but they’re kind of useless in the moment.

amother

↑ Butterscotch ↓

Today at 5:26 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

I can see why you think that. The difference is with your intent, which you must explain to her. If you would use cold water as a punishment, that could be seen as worse. But it's not a punishment. It might be uncomfortable but the point isn't too hurt her. The point is to help her calm down when she's already passed the point of total dysregulation. If she can do it herself at that point - splash her own face, or something similar - that would be ideal. If not, you are helping her with something that works. Not to hurt her, but to teach her an effective way of stopping the highest levels of dysregulation.

That's different than hitting. You don't have a goal of her learning to hit herself when she realizes she is dysregulated. Hitting implies she's a bad girl. A dysregulated child isn't a bad kid. They're trials with emotion is too strong for them to manage who needs help to manage them.

You might have the best of intentions, but I don't know if it's possible to hit a child while simultaneously feeling deep compassion and love. And in their worst moments, that's what our children need. When they can't even love themselves anymore, they need to know that you love them.

You don't have to like this option. There will be other options you like better that will work for your family. I'm not trying to give you the magic solution. Only trying to give an example of other things you haven't thought of yet. Potching isn't one size fits all effective and neither is cold water or anything else. But with an open mind and a willingness to search and to learn, you can find something that works for your family.

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