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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
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 Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:24 pm
| amother Daylily wrote: | I think it’s a Hungarian thing to prepare toyamahu and to make sure guests have enough food.
Honestly for me it’s part of hosting. I always make sure to have kugel, ferfel, deli roll, cake, mini meat pizza rounds and more.
By the time we have the meal no one is interested in eating more than a little challa, salmon and soup. I find that people have a bigger appetite Friday afternoon.
We once got invited to DH’s friend for a shabbes and they served the meal VERY scarce and very calculated. We all got a sliver of challa, tiny piece of salmon and soup. There was nothing left for seconds, and no this is nothing to do with not having money to cook. It’s just her type.
I was starving as we had traveled quite a bit and I was munching on some nuts in my room that I had taken along for the way. I was probably hungrier because there was no extra morsel of food in sight.
Since then I made a pact that whenever we invite guest it includes Friday afternoon food as well, I’d rather have lots of food and make everyone feel comfortable and at home than be so calculated. |
Oh wow. I don't understand that at all.
I might not do snacking, but I overcook for Shabbat meals just in case. I want to make sure everyone gets full.
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camp123
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:46 pm
I think this is very cultural. No body in my extended family would expect a meal on Friday. You are not meant to eat a big meal on Friday, you should be hungry for shabbos. If we were staying somewhere we would eat something small before going and maybe when we got there we would have some fruit or a piece of cake. If someone was able maybe some kugel, but it wouldn't be expected.
Some communities are just used to eating a lot. So if it's normal for them to eat a full meal on Friday afternoon before shabbos I guess they would expect it to be served.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:10 am
| camp123 wrote: | I think this is very cultural. No body in my extended family would expect a meal on Friday. You are not meant to eat a big meal on Friday, you should be hungry for shabbos. If we were staying somewhere we would eat something small before going and maybe when we got there we would have some fruit or a piece of cake. If someone was able maybe some kugel, but it wouldn't be expected.
Some communities are just used to eating a lot. So if it's normal for them to eat a full meal on Friday afternoon before shabbos I guess they would expect it to be served. |
As was stated multiple times on this thread, no one is expecting a big fancy meal. Guests just want the host to have something (anything) prepared just in case they get hungry. Just like you prepare food for your guests to have between meals on shabbos you can offer the same thing on Friday.
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amother
Vanilla
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:15 am
| amother Daylily wrote: | I think it’s a Hungarian thing to prepare toyamahu and to make sure guests have enough food.
Honestly for me it’s part of hosting. I always make sure to have kugel, ferfel, deli roll, cake, mini meat pizza rounds and more.
By the time we have the meal no one is interested in eating more than a little challa, salmon and soup. I find that people have a bigger appetite Friday afternoon.
We once got invited to DH’s friend for a shabbes and they served the meal VERY scarce and very calculated. We all got a sliver of challa, tiny piece of salmon and soup. There was nothing left for seconds, and no this is nothing to do with not having money to cook. It’s just her type.
I was starving as we had traveled quite a bit and I was munching on some nuts in my room that I had taken along for the way. I was probably hungrier because there was no extra morsel of food in sight.
Since then I made a pact that whenever we invite guest it includes Friday afternoon food as well, I’d rather have lots of food and make everyone feel comfortable and at home than be so calculated. |
I am Hungarian on all sides and we were firmly taught not to spoil your appetite for shabbos. Shabbos is special and so is shabbos food and shouldn’t be eaten on Friday before shabbos. It takes away from the holiness , the kedusha of shabbos.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:19 am
| amother DarkPurple wrote: | OP said this was a short Friday, so I am assuming winter time. I don't understand why any adult who ate lunch needs to be "tided over" before a winter Shabbos dinner time, which is what, 6:30 pm? For kids, snack bags, crackers, peanut butter, granola, or fruit should be fine as a snack. We don't serve a hot meal before the meal, to me that is an unusual expectation.
In the summer, when dinner may not start until much later, I get wanting a snack, but to me kugel and schnitzel is a meal. We just feed kids in the afternoon, but my husband and I don't eat any hot food. |
Presumably they didn't eat lunch.
Depending from how far they are driving from, if they are coming straight from work... obviously if they ate a real lunch they are not hungry, but did they really? How far was their drive?
When I go to simchos for Shabbos I arrive famished. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:21 am
| camp123 wrote: | I think this is very cultural. No body in my extended family would expect a meal on Friday. You are not meant to eat a big meal on Friday, you should be hungry for shabbos. If we were staying somewhere we would eat something small before going and maybe when we got there we would have some fruit or a piece of cake. If someone was able maybe some kugel, but it wouldn't be expected.
Some communities are just used to eating a lot. So if it's normal for them to eat a full meal on Friday afternoon before shabbos I guess they would expect it to be served. |
Nobody expects a meal, but its usual to put out some kugel, especially if guests are arriving from a distance (for those in Eretz Yisroel, the US is much more spread apart).
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emee2
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 1:34 am
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Im chassidish and on Fridays my kids get lunch around noon. It’s either leftovers from the week or something kid friendly like fish sticks and fries. Around 3pm they have a snack and that is either a snack bag, granola bar, cookies etc. Then at 5 ish I serve them chicken, ferfel and vegetables from the Shabbos meal. If we have guests they are offered all these things too and always hot potato kugel right when they arrive. I actually don’t make potato kugel every week but if I am having guests I do because I think they expect it. On the other weeks, I make yerushalmi or zuchini kugel etc.
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amother
Cyclamen
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 7:58 am
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This was so interesting to read! In my house the kitchen is closed after lunch and my husband cleans it while I get everyone ready for shabbos. If shabbos is later and my kids are hungry I will give them some fruit or a little bit of shabbos food right before shabbos or right after candle lighting. So I would offer the same to guests kids but I definitely don't serve any real food to adult guests. If the guests are from far and come before lunch then obviously I'd serve them lunch with everyone else
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 9:32 am
| amother Daylily wrote: | I think it’s a Hungarian thing to prepare toyamahu and to make sure guests have enough food.
Honestly for me it’s part of hosting. I always make sure to have kugel, ferfel, deli roll, cake, mini meat pizza rounds and more.
By the time we have the meal no one is interested in eating more than a little challa, salmon and soup. I find that people have a bigger appetite Friday afternoon.
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I would consult with your dayan about this. This is extremely problematic halachicly. It is precisely for this reason that chazal forbade large meals on Friday afternoon. It is brought down as assur, with no debate in the poskim, chassidishe poskim included.
In fact, the Shulchan Aruch brings the reason that it is forbidden is because one will not be hungry and have a hearty appetite for the actual shabbos meal.
The pri megadim adds that in addition, one is denigrating shabbos by serving the same level of food on Friday (in your case better food).
The Magen Avraham adds that chazal were worried that being busy putting out a large meal on Friday afternoon could interfere with shabbos prep.
Amazingly it seems from this thread that all three reasons may commonly apply!
The Gemara in Gittin relates that two wealthy families that made it a habit to make large seudos on erev shabbos were completely eradicated as punishment for violating this by consistently coming into Shabbos stuffed.
The Shulchan Aruch actually brings down that it is mertorious for those who have trouble mustering up an appetite for the Friday night seudah to fast on erev shabbos if this will help them have an appetite.
Putting out a feast on Friday so that everyone can barely make it past the challah and soup is a clear violation of Halacha, well meaning as it is.
Most people wouldn’t consider serving guests food of dubious kashrus because “the guests expect food”. This is no different. Halachicly permissible foods that don’t ruin the appetite for shabbos should be served to the guests. This way one is getting the mitzvah of hachnosas orchim while honoring shabbos as well, not Chas veshalom the opposite.
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lamplighter
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 9:38 am
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In the summer months most of my family eats main course before shabbos and no one is hungry past soup. I always feel bad, like its not respectful to shabbos. Practically this is how it works out but I do think about it.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 9:42 am
| lamplighter wrote: | | In the summer months most of my family eats main course before shabbos and no one is hungry past soup. I always feel bad, like its not respectful to shabbos. Practically this is how it works out but I do think about it. |
I think that's different. It is hard for some people to eat late, I can't.
When I became intolerant to gluten my rov said if you don't enjoy something ie including it will make you ill after, it isn't oneg Shabbos and you shouldn't have it.
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amother
DarkViolet
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 9:44 am
OK so now I understand why people keep bemoaning how expensive it is to be frum. There is a huge difference between my husband and kids coming to scoop a tablespoon out of the potato kugel vs. serving an entire meal minus the challah before shabbos.
If you eat so much before shabbos that you can't eat at the actual seuda, something is wrong.
I feed my people lunch (pasta or pizza or a soup) at lunch time and they can have snacks later in the summer or whatever. In the summer I make shnitzel sometimes. If anyone eats so much they won't touch the actual meal - no way is that ok with me.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:03 pm
| Raizle wrote: | This is very interesting to me as I always learnt you are not meant to eat too much before shabbos as you have to save your appetite for the Shabbos meal.
I feel like maybe it started off as tasting from the Shabbos food and perhaps turned into a whole meal?? |
Lol. I posted recently on a different thread that I thought having a big vacht nacht was like eating a large meal for toamehu before Shabbos and then only a small amount of food on Shabbos. Didn't even realize it was actually such a thing.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:16 pm
| amother Daylily wrote: | I think it’s a Hungarian thing to prepare toyamahu and to make sure guests have enough food.
Honestly for me it’s part of hosting. I always make sure to have kugel, ferfel, deli roll, cake, mini meat pizza rounds and more.
By the time we have the meal no one is interested in eating more than a little challa, salmon and soup. I find that people have a bigger appetite Friday afternoon.
We once got invited to DH’s friend for a shabbes and they served the meal VERY scarce and very calculated. We all got a sliver of challa, tiny piece of salmon and soup. There was nothing left for seconds, and no this is nothing to do with not having money to cook. It’s just her type.
I was starving as we had traveled quite a bit and I was munching on some nuts in my room that I had taken along for the way. I was probably hungrier because there was no extra morsel of food in sight.
Since then I made a pact that whenever we invite guest it includes Friday afternoon food as well, I’d rather have lots of food and make everyone feel comfortable and at home than be so calculated. |
Are all those of Hungarian backgrounds SAHMs also 
I can't imagine managing to prepare this kind of spread in addition to the Shabbos meals.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 12:52 pm
| amother Daylily wrote: | I think it’s a Hungarian thing to prepare toyamahu and to make sure guests have enough food.
Honestly for me it’s part of hosting. I always make sure to have kugel, ferfel, deli roll, cake, mini meat pizza rounds and more.
By the time we have the meal no one is interested in eating more than a little challa, salmon and soup. I find that people have a bigger appetite Friday afternoon.
We once got invited to DH’s friend for a shabbes and they served the meal VERY scarce and very calculated. We all got a sliver of challa, tiny piece of salmon and soup. There was nothing left for seconds, and no this is nothing to do with not having money to cook. It’s just her type.
I was starving as we had traveled quite a bit and I was munching on some nuts in my room that I had taken along for the way. I was probably hungrier because there was no extra morsel of food in sight.
Since then I made a pact that whenever we invite guest it includes Friday afternoon food as well, I’d rather have lots of food and make everyone feel comfortable and at home than be so calculated. | 😳
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amother
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 2:47 pm
| amother DarkViolet wrote: | OK so now I understand why people keep bemoaning how expensive it is to be frum. There is a huge difference between my husband and kids coming to scoop a tablespoon out of the potato kugel vs. serving an entire meal minus the challah before shabbos.
If you eat so much before shabbos that you can't eat at the actual seuda, something is wrong.
I feed my people lunch (pasta or pizza or a soup) at lunch time and they can have snacks later in the summer or whatever. In the summer I make shnitzel sometimes. If anyone eats so much they won't touch the actual meal - no way is that ok with me. |
It's the food you would have eaten Friday night, they're just eating it Friday afternoon instead. Not necessarily more expensive.
Now I understand when people say they only serve challah, fish and soup on Friday night. Noones eating past that because of course they're stuffed.
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Cheiny
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 2:49 pm
| amother Cyclamen wrote: | | This was so interesting to read! In my house the kitchen is closed after lunch and my husband cleans it while I get everyone ready for shabbos. If shabbos is later and my kids are hungry I will give them some fruit or a little bit of shabbos food right before shabbos or right after candle lighting. So I would offer the same to guests kids but I definitely don't serve any real food to adult guests. If the guests are from far and come before lunch then obviously I'd serve them lunch with everyone else |
And what if they arrive right after lunch?
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Cheiny
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Mon, Jan 06 2025, 2:51 pm
| amother Aster wrote: | I would consult with your dayan about this. This is extremely problematic halachicly. It is precisely for this reason that chazal forbade large meals on Friday afternoon. It is brought down as assur, with no debate in the poskim, chassidishe poskim included.
In fact, the Shulchan Aruch brings the reason that it is forbidden is because one will not be hungry and have a hearty appetite for the actual shabbos meal.
The pri megadim adds that in addition, one is denigrating shabbos by serving the same level of food on Friday (in your case better food).
The Magen Avraham adds that chazal were worried that being busy putting out a large meal on Friday afternoon could interfere with shabbos prep.
Amazingly it seems from this thread that all three reasons may commonly apply!
The Gemara in Gittin relates that two wealthy families that made it a habit to make large seudos on erev shabbos were completely eradicated as punishment for violating this by consistently coming into Shabbos stuffed.
The Shulchan Aruch actually brings down that it is mertorious for those who have trouble mustering up an appetite for the Friday night seudah to fast on erev shabbos if this will help them have an appetite.
Putting out a feast on Friday so that everyone can barely make it past the challah and soup is a clear violation of Halacha, well meaning as it is.
Most people wouldn’t consider serving guests food of dubious kashrus because “the guests expect food”. This is no different. Halachicly permissible foods that don’t ruin the appetite for shabbos should be served to the guests. This way one is getting the mitzvah of hachnosas orchim while honoring shabbos as well, not Chas veshalom the opposite. |
This exactly.
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