New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ Reality ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 12:50 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Question: How do you know it's a wonderful pilot program?

Because I know people who were in it. It's not brand new. They are still chareidi and they have good jobs. As the other amother already posted, the boys are in an intelligence unit. Afterwards, they are able to get good paying jobs in hi-tech.

Again, this particular hesder program will not solve the current problem of a shortage of combat soldiers but:

1. You have to start somewhere.
2. As the other amother already said, now other chareidi yeshiva programs are opening that are for boys who want to be in a combat unit.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 1:22 am

Reality wrote:

This has nothing to do with a specific city. Why do posters keep on assuming this is only happening in RBS. No, it's happening in Yerushalayim, in Bnei Brak, in Beitar etc.

Again, I am not talking about people who struggle with mental health. There's another group of boys I'm talking about. Normal, healthy boys who don't or can't learn all day. I know a bunch from many different cities in Israel. Some are studying abroad, some are in vocational school in Israel, some are in university in Israel. One boy I know is studying to be a lawyer.

Some remain chareidi and some are barely religious anymore without ever stepping foot in the IDF.

I know for a fact their parents work like crazy to get their sons FAKE mental health pturs and then they go on their merry way doing whatever they want. Why can't those boys serve?

Yes this isn't just RBS, I don't know why people are obsessed with saying kids who make aliyah go OTD when most of these kids were born here or are Israeli and plenty of kids go OTD all over the USA and in other cities. but someone specifically mentioned hanging out with boys and girls together so that's what population I was referring to.

The vast majority of guys who are flirting and hanging out with girls are not wearing black and white, and are struggling with their mental health IMHO.

I think you are right, we are talking about two populations here.

There's a group of people as you say who are good stable happy boys finding their direction in other places than full time yeshivah, and yes I would agree with you those boys should go to the army. If a kid is already is college/vocational school than he is up to going to the army.

↑ juggling

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 1:35 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

The ideology of IDF hasn't changed.

This whole argument, starting with your father in law's experience in 1948, is like if someone would say that "America wants to make people not keep shabbos. I know this because my father in law was forced to work on shabbos in the 1920's."

Today's army has policies in place to respect the right of all soldiers to practice their religion. A soldier has the right to insist.

Could there be specific instances where the secular commander doesn't respect religious sensibilities? Yes, it could happen. The advantage of hesder units or charedi units is that you have rabbinic guidance to help navigate these situations if they arise. And the charedi units themselves have more "rights" in place, that soldiers can insist upon honoring.

amother

↑ Blueberry

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 2:02 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Where are you getting this from? Can't Believe It

Maybe from those reports that are coming out of groups such as Movement for Quality in Government (or something like that) who are petitioning the SC to rule that the army can't draft based on criteria of who it thinks is mostly like to respond to a draft notice, but must send out notices randomly to chareidim, so that even the most dedicated yeshiva boys are also drafted. And all the commenters (not on here) who are cheering on that idea.

↑ Reality ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 2:39 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I don't think all the guys that are hanging out have mental illnesses. Too many feel hopeless and helpless. They feel like they have no options.

I've also seen groups of just guys hanging out really late, smoking (if not on shabbos) and drinking. These are yeshiva boys in black and white and are acting wild in the street, probably drunk.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 3:51 am

Reality wrote:

I have no problem if individual yeshiva boys who aren't happy being in yeshiva are going to chareidi units in IDF.
IDF has now done a very stupid thing. They are sending out drafts to chareidim before the laws of gius has undergone voting in knesset. That is definitely waving a red flag in front of a bull. The chareidi response is "nobody will turn up at lishkat gius".
Things could have been done much smarter. But no.
If IDF hasn't learned to deal with chareidim for 76 years then it's really too late for them to change.

↑ Reality ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 3:56 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Place the blame where it belongs. If chareidi leadership would come together with a viable plan none of this would be happening.

↑ someone

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 4:00 am

Reality wrote:

Place the blame where it belongs. If chareidi leadership would come together with a viable plan none of this would be happening.

I think there's enough blame to go around in this whole mess... I also agree that sending out tzavim now is ridiculous, populistic and antagonistic. It definitely won't bring us closer to a solution. That doesn't change the basic fact that a solution is possible if both sides were willing to work toward one.

↑ Reality ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 4:06 am

someone wrote:

Again, if the chareidi leaders would have actually come up with a plan those letters wouldn't have gone out.

A plan isn't digging your heels in and proclaiming not one charedi can serve in the treif army.

Come to the negotiation table and work out a deal.

etky ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 4:16 am

Another mom wrote:

Speaking of Frum soldiers, I have the sad news that Sanguine's (MIchal Knoller z"l) son Nadav fell in battle 2 weeks ago in Aza... And, today, 12 Tamuz is her Yuhrzeit. Crying

I should start a spinoff with more details. SO...... let's respect all the soldiers, yes, they are "Frum" and died on Kiddush Hashem. So so sad. Such a gibor/ ה' יקום דמו Crying

And yes, of course it's Milchemet Mitzva unless we are talking about a war saving non-Jews. We all agree that this is NOT the case!

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....35850

Thanks for letting us know it is her yarzheit today. I just remember that it was in the summer....

↑ Rappel

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 4:29 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

That's how you know it's a political stunt and that they don't really want religious soldiers. The best slap back, honestly, would be to draft en masse and turn the IDF policies completely religious. It's slow going, but it's happening.

↑ LovesHashem

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 4:59 am

etky wrote:

Here is an article about the IDF's tailored plan for absorbing the charedi boys who will be drafted starting next week:
https://www.kan.org.il/content.....4636/
It's in Hebrew. Sorry I don't have time to summarize now, maybe on motzash....

This sounds great! Thank you for sharing.

מיקוד באוכלוסייה אשר עזבה את הלימודים בישיבות או משלבת לימודים ועבודה ולא נמצאת רק בישיבה. איתור באמצעות העברת מידע מביטוח לאומי, משרד החינוך, והלמ"ס".

Google translate: "Targeting the population that has left studies in yeshiva or combines studies and work and is not only in yeshiva. Locating through the transfer of information from National Insurance, the Ministry of Education, and the CBS"

They aren't even targeting people actually learning full time.

↑ DrMom ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 5:53 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Motivated soldiers are good soldiers. If someone believes one can draft unmotivated chareidim by force and turn them into combat soldiers they are wrong.
Gut Shabbes

I think defending your fellow Jews is an excellent motivator, but if that is not sufficiently motivating, let them peel potatoes or scrub toilets on base.

↑ shabbatiscoming

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 6:38 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Motivated soldiers are good soldiers. If someone believes one can draft unmotivated chareidim by force and turn them into combat soldiers they are wrong.
Gut Shabbes

Not every soldier is in kravi. There are so many positions in the army. And if you think every soldier is motivated, I have a bridge to sell you.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 8:05 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Not every soldier is in kravi. There are so many positions in the army. And if you think every soldier is motivated, I have a bridge to sell you.

AFAIK IDF has said they need combat soldiers, that there is a lack, right?
On the other hand there is a surplus of other categories. Why do you think so many nonreligious in 18-21 aren't drafted or finish their service earlier? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NEEDED.

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Fri, Jul 19 2024, 8:10 am

Rappel wrote:

Of course it's a political stunt and it's obvious IDF dont want chareidim. Now try and go and try to tell the DL ladies on this thread that IDF doesn't want chareidim.
Turning IDF ideology religious? Only when h*ll freezes will it happen...

↑ DrMom

Sat, Jul 20 2024, 9:40 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

The IDF needs manpower. Current soldiers have just had their mandatory service extended due to lack of manpower.

There is no excuse for able-bodied young men to hide in yeshiva when the country is in need of soldiers and in the midst of an existential war. The cowardice is shameful.

And even if there was not a war, there is no reason for one segment of the population to be en masse exempt from service.