New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:10 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

either way we cant know whats right, maybe they are, maybe you are.

the point is that everyone is following their rabbanim.

and I see here Imas who say they are DL saying terrible things against the gedolim of the chareidi world. I dont care how pained you are about this situation, its not OK.

But its ok the other way?

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:10 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

You literally replied with that. You said that they would need charedim for those life cycle events.
And in a thread different people will reply to different replies. Thats the whole concept of the thread.

Of course chareidim are needed for religious services. Why shouldn't they would be needed?

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:12 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Im sorry but you are going to have to do better than that because any frum jew, including dati leumi in israel, as we are talking about in israel, also base our lives on torah and mitzvot.

Banging head

yes but there is a fundamental difference -

DL believe in the mitzvah of settling EY at almost all costs and chareidim DONT.

I am not big enough to know who is right. I dont even know why they both cant be right.

but each person has to follow their rabbi.

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:16 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

Right. So I want to understand. According to the chareidi approach, who will protect us from all of the millions of enemies all around us who want to kill us all and dump us in the sea (or do worse things)? I'm asking seriously. I understand this issue is complex, but I have never managed to understand the answer to this question.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:16 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

no!

I didnt see any ima here talk bad about a DL rabbi.

if I missed please show me.

I meant b'gadol, as in, of course there has been, on this site.
And things I have personally head in real life. Makes me want to cry.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:17 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Of course chareidim are needed for religious services. Why shouldn't they would be needed?

The way you replied was that ONLY charedim can and are able to perform religious services. And that is what I and other posters are saying, that that fact is NOT true at all.

↑ imaima

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:18 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

That's not what I've claimed.
I've said the IDF doesn't and cant accommodate tnaim for chareidim.
I'm not qualified to specify in detail exactly if yechida X or Y has chareidim accommodated things.
The foundation and values of chareidim are well known. Torah and mitzvot.

You are being really difficult. Is it so hard to explain what particular values are not accommodated by the IDF? That was your own argument.
I want to understand. Torah and mitzvot are also a foundation of dati leumi, but they also serve.
Do you know how many mitzvos you can do during the war? You are literally saving lives. Any chareidi should run to apply.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:20 pm

someone wrote:

all the people who want to be in the army, the chilonim and whatever DL ppl want to enlist. basically exactly the people who are in the army now. but anyways b'etzem the chareidim believe that it is really the learning that is protecting us but Hashem works through teva and that is why we have an army, but if for even one second there wouldnt be Torah learning the whole world would be destroyed.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:23 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Are you really saying that the families of full time learners are the ONLY families that are living by TRUE TORAH VALUES? Think about what you are saying.

No. That is *not* what I'm saying.
You read in a lot of things which I haven't claimed and hasn't said.

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:24 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

And if there aren't enough of those people? Because, lets say, there was a war, and thousands of soldiers were injured or killed? And we were, lets say, facing enemies on multiple fronts and b'derech hateva we needed a large number of soldiers to be able to deal with those threats. Then what?
Or what if everyone became frum? Who would be the army then?

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:26 pm

someone wrote:

the approach is - worst case they will leave and go learn somewhere else.

we are in golus and we have not yet earned the privelege to permanently control and live in EY.
what we have now is a blessing - a gift - but not an automatic right

and certainly no a obligation to lose out on learning - or to risk lives.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:28 pm

imaima wrote:

I cant tell u abt the whole army bc bH I have never been but I have friends, girls, who were in all girls units and they said that for example they would be sleeping in tents or whatever just girls but legit right next to them would be a unit with boys. the food is not a good enough hechsher for chareidim. my friend said shabbos didnt even really feel like shabbos bc there would be people just blasting music. and, they are not learning Torah.
these are also just a few examples I have but I can speak to my friends im sure theres a hundred other things.

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:28 pm

someone wrote:

again, you are coming from the assumption that we NEED an army and that we are in supposed to be in control of EY.
the state of israel - to chareidi hashkafa - is not connected to the future malchus of EY through mashiach
it should come speedily in our days!!!

LIMASHAL if the british still controlled the region and started drafting chareidi jews (who were previously exempt). we would understand why there would be protest.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:30 pm

someone wrote:

well these are good questions in theory iyH when everyone is frum mashiach will be here. until then things are working just fine.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:30 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

The way you replied was that ONLY charedim can and are able to perform religious services. And that is what I and other posters are saying, that that fact is NOT true at all.

You need to take a deep breath and reread things. I have NEVER claimed ever that ONLY chareidim are entitled to perform religious services.

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:31 pm

someone wrote:

I think this is a hard question to consider, most people who are chareidi would say whatever the gedolim say. Chareidim use daas Torah to run their entire life.

I am feeling a little more nuanced, and agreeing with a lot of you DL posters. I haven't jumped in much because I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to statistics and the options for the army and first hand stories on either side (for staying frum or going OTD) don't show the bigger picture of what's statically happening.

Me and my husband hashkafos have definitely changed over the past few years and we have a lot of overlap with the chardal/DL chazak community when it comes to what we believe and value.

I think I'm able to see both sides, and I kinda of stand somewhere in middle.

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:32 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

But even if we aren't meant to be in control of EY, there are millions of Jews here whose lives are in danger. Doesn't that mean that we all have some kind of responsibility to try and protect our fellow Jews?