New draft and frum families making aliyah

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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

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amother

OP ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 8:33 am

Are they really drafting? And what’s the age ? We’re planning on making Aliyah in a month will we be affected?

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 9:38 am

I love how you call it frum families.

Every mother wants her child to be safe. How can you call it Aliya and want to move there for all the advantages and bracha it provides, and depend on others to keep you safe and shirk responsibility for yourself. I wish I could make aliya at this time and I would never want my children to be in harms way, but I can’t put that on others. My life is not worth more than someone else’s, I don’t know Hashem’s chesbon.

Reality ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 9:42 am

How old is your husband? How old are your sons?

The army doesn't usually want men over a certain age, I think 24, someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Dolly151

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 9:48 am

I thought until 26 years old you need to get a ptur. But probs from 24 they don't want you either

papaya613

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 9:59 am

my husband was told when he was 22 that he would have gotten a patur (he had a medical patur so it didnt matter anyway)
if you are married/have kids they don't want to draft you as an oleh chadash either as far as I know

shabbatiscoming ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 10:59 am

amother OP wrote:

Are they really drafting? And what’s the age ? We’re planning on making Aliyah in a month will we be affected?

There is literally no way to give you an exact answer because even if they font end up drafting now, who knows if this wont come up again in a few years.
There is nothing written in blood that says ALL males wont be drafted.
Making aliyah, you have to realize that.

amother

Heather

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:04 am

amother Slateblue wrote:

The issue regarding joining the army is not about staying safe or shirking responsibility. It’s about the army still not properly accommodating chareidi like hashkafah. Let’s not try to spin this into something else.

But. I personally would not be concerned regarding my husband. If you have sons approaching draft age, it may be a concern.

Brit in Israel

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:16 am

At the moment as far as I know the Army have asked to only draft the boys who are unofficially working. There are many yeshiva boys who are under a yeshiva but at least for half day are working. These are who they are starting with.

If you are making Aliyah and are worried, you can have your boys come as 'living in Israel but not citizens-toshev haaretz' (I think that's the namethey won't get all the benefits but won't have problems with the army. Once they are passed army recruitment age and have I think 3 kids they can make Aliyah and and get a patur- not sure the exact situation I know my bil moved here as a kid and they were waiting to be in that situation.

amother

Nasturtium ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:18 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Want to jump in - we are charedi and my hashkafa is that we would never send our son who is learning seriously to the army (if he isn't of course he shouldn't shirk his duty assuming there are appropriate frameworks for him to stay charedi.

Even if you are hard core charedi- there is no reason not to make aliya. Eretz Yisrael is eretz hakodesh, and it is a specail zchus to live here.

If things get to the point that they force yeshiva bachurim out of yeshiva - we are all still american citizens, and we can move back or send our kids back before they hit army age.
In general - we try to have as many citizenships as possible - for all you know there could be an arab majority in goverment with the hard left in 50 years and there could be all sorts of gezeros towards religious people - having a way out is a good thing in galus.

I don't actually think it will get there and they will find a way to have the charedim who are not learning server in a way that allows them to remain charedi.

amother

Brickred ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 12:59 pm

Boys are not drafted the first year. My oldest son was drafted for this war exactly one year after Aliyah. He is married with a baby and BH another on the way. He was in yeshiva full time and didn't realize that he had to defer until it was too late. Our other boys went with student visas and did not make aliyah.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 1:08 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Just want to point out that msny many charedi boys do go into the army and remsin sttong in their yiddishkeit and in being charedi.

amother

↑ Nasturtium ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 1:19 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Just want to point out that msny many charedi boys do go into the army and remsin sttong in their yiddishkeit and in being charedi.

Stay strong in there yiddeshkeit - yes

Stay really hard core charedi - I have not met anyone yet, and I am very very involved in groups that are in derech chaim ( the charedi hesder) hedvata, shachar kachol, netzach yehuda. Both family and professionally, and neighbors.

The people who go to these maslulim come out more charedi lite then charedi, if at all. They may have the levush but they don't have the values.

I think that disregarding this is the reason we have not reached a solution, and we currently have many many charedi men who are NOT learning full time who are not in the army. The current reality that it is almost impossible to remain hard core, shtark, charedi in the army in the current set up

I do have hope - that after OCT. 7th the army will recognize the need for charedi soliders and will be more willing to create frameworks that work for them.
My dd is a girl and very young, but I hope that if mashiach doesnt come, by the time I have kids at gil giyus, there will be options for them to serve if it turns out that learning full time is not where they will best use there kochos.

giftedmom

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 1:21 pm

Op maybe post in the chareidi forum. Lots of very sensitive Zionist Ima’s here.

amother

Lawngreen

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 2:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

New draft and frum families making aliyah

The word you are looking for is chareidi

amother

↑ Brickred

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:34 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

Idk why all the hugs. My son is in a chareidi unit and feels that even though he is not putting in as much time learning (he still has a chavrusah in the early morning and evening) his connection to his learning and to Hashem is much stronger than it's ever been. He has spent the last 3 months in combat and it's been a good experience for him.
I just want OP to understand that you have no control over who gets drafted and when. It's true the majority of chareidi have not yet been in the army- hopefully they won't need to! But if Hashem decides this is the nest place for you, then drafted you will be.

DrMom ↓

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:41 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Op maybe post in the chareidi forum. Lots of very sensitive Zionist Ima’s here.

A lot of frum women whose sons and husbands are defending the country in the IDF are on here.

There, I fixed it for you.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jul 16 2024, 11:43 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Op maybe post in the chareidi forum. Lots of very sensitive Zionist Ima’s here.

I'm chareidi and a zionist. I think people don't know what a zionist is anymore, the true definition is someone who believes this is our indigenous homeland and we have the right to come back and have this land.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 12:07 am

The draft has been an ongoing debate for around 70 years now. It's hard to say how things will play out, it's all still very up in the air.

People who might be affected in the near future are men ages 18-22, roughly. If you have sons in that age range (or if your dh is in that age range), and they aren't planning to learn full-time in yeshiva, they might be eligible for the draft.

Otherwise it shouldn't be an issue for now. If things change in the future, odds are very good that you'll have plenty of time to decide what the changes mean for your family and how you want to deal with it.

And realistically, the state is not going to be able to enlist the bulk of hareidi men by force. More likely (but still unlikely) there will be significant budget cuts to hareidi yeshivas.

amother

Acacia ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 1:06 am

I really really wish you would change your title from "frum familes" to "charedi families" at the very least.

It's super offensive to people like me whose frum husbands (who are not spry 19 year olds with no obligations beyond themselves, but balding dads pushing 40 with many professional obligations and families they left behind) spent half a year in the army. Actually my husband came home more committed to learning and davening.

amother

Turquoise ↓

Wed, Jul 17 2024, 2:02 am

amother Nasturtium wrote:

WOW!!! I take massive offense to this.

We are chareidi. We had two boys serve who are now doing multiple rounds of miluim. They went in and came out just as chareidi as they started. I can tell you about many other boys in the same situation. I can tell you about many boys who came out frumer than how they went in.

I can tell you what high school yeshiva to NOT send your boys to, as half my son's class are no longer frum - it would truly shock you to the core if I could say which yeshiva it was. I won't mention the name here, as that's not the point. I can honestly say that after this 'well-known' and famous yeshiva experience, BH the IDF kept my kids on track. Compared to their friends they have incredible middos, they are beyond responsible, keep shabbos and mitzovos without a doubt. They learn every day, when they can, which is amazing.

You are welcome for my putting my kids on the front lines to help protect you so you can make aliyah in peace. At the very least make sure your kids do the same to protect mine, by sitting and learning. Don't let them be the ones riding the light rail and getting iced coffees and mucking around. I have yet to see a group of chareidim or peleg protestors sitting and learning while blocking the highways and messing up everything for everyone else.

Sorry, but I find this very hurtful that people assume that anyone who drafts into the IDF is sub-quality when it comes to yiddishkiet when the actual yeshiva crowd itself is not up to par, let's be honest. There are problems everywhere, in every system, don't blame the IDF.

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