New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:39 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ill tell you that most chilonim dont know the difference between different types of frum jews. I have many many chiloni relatives. Weve had this discussion with them many times. They dont know or see the difference between myself, a dati leumi woman and my chasidish relative who lives in chatzor haglilit. To them its all the same.

Every Israeli knows there is a difference between DL and chareidim. Why else do we have different political parties?
Every israeli know many mityashvim are DL. Chareidim aren't famous for living in Yehuda ve Shomron.
Every israeli with eyes in this head should sêe the visible difference between a DL and a chareidi. One had to be blind not to see it.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:41 pm

Reality wrote:

Do you live in a very small place?

Large chareidi neighborhoods have boys and girls hanging out until the wee hours.

I think thats just rbs which is its own situation and not like other chareidi communities

amother

↑ Amethyst

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:43 pm

Reality wrote:

That's besides the point. Does chareidi mean something or not?

A guy who is drinking, hanging around girls, watching inappropriate movies is chareidi as long as he keeps on his black and white clothes? He's only otd if he puts a pair of jeans on?

hes just a struggling kid, dont get so caught up in his clothing.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:45 pm

Reality wrote:

Now you go on and please answer the question what you think fakers should be wearing.

↑ lostmyoldSN

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:51 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I'll agree with this having a nice amount of exposure to the Chiloni world. Some do, but many really don't. They may here the term Charedi but they don't understand the nuances especially when the charedi woman they meet is so likeable and the "charedim" in the news sound so distant. They understand Dati with ease.

Last edited by lostmyoldSN on Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:54 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

I think thats just rbs which is its own situation and not like other chareidi communities

I don't know what people are talking about even in RBS. It's maybe 50 kids? On shabbos only. Most of whom do not look chareidi at all and have switched out of chareidi schools at that point.

Maybe once upon a time ago there was a bigger scene. RBS is boring, everyone wants to get out, see the world, and meet more people. Much more likely to be by Ben Yehudah or Yaffo Thursday nights than hanging out in a dark kids park.

Also those kids are likely to be drafted as they are often no longer in chareidi yeshivas.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 3:56 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

I think thats just rbs which is its own situation and not like other chareidi communities

How did I know you were going to say that?

Nope, I've seen it elsewhere, in chareidi neighborhood that have very few olim.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:00 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

hes just a struggling kid, dont get so caught up in his clothing.

Look, we are talking about who gets a ptur from the army not my personal feelings about kids who are struggling.

All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. You can't get a ptur for learning if you ain't learning.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:02 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Now you go on and please answer the question what you think fakers should be wearing.

I don't care what they wear. Just don't pretend to be a yeshiva boy to get out of the draft.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:03 pm

juggling wrote:

מדים?

I want Reality to answer this question specifically.
And yes, there are *plenty* who would be thrilled to see IDF breaking the entrance to the yeshivot, grabbing the boys by the neck, forcibly clothe them in IDF uniforms and most important of all, indoctrinate them with a *new education* with is completely stripped of Yiddishkeit Torah and mitzvot. "The New Israeli" concept.

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:04 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Also those kids are likely to be drafted as they are often no longer in chareidi yeshivas.

Not necessarily true. Their parents are busy running around getting them fake mental health pturs instead.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:05 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

So dont believe me if you dont want to. Ive spoken with my chiloni cousins about this numerous times. Even wit the different dress codes etc, to them its all just religious.
All the nuances that you mentioned here are not things that make any amount of differences to chiloni people.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:07 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Where are you getting this from? Can't Believe It

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:07 pm

Reality wrote:

I don't care what they wear.

Yes you do care. A long as it's not the chareidi black and white "uniform" you don't care. But if it's the black-white uniform they are fakers, right?

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:13 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

There are probably some people who would like that. They don't represent the majority of the population, they just get a lot of media coverage. But I would like to suggest again that we don't fall into hyperbole and stereotypes. Yes there are all kinds of people with problematic agendas. Yes, there is a media campaign that is anti chareidi. But putting that aside, there is a genuine issue here that has to be addressed properly. Not with soundbites and bombastic statements that mean nothing when you break them down

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:16 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Yes you do care. A long as it's not the chareidi black and white "uniform" you don't care. But if it's the black-white uniform they are fakers, right?

So what does chareidi mean? If you can do whatever you want in private (and not so private), but you are enrolled in a chareidi yeshiva (that you don't show up to) what makes one chareidi?

amother

Oleander

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:20 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Now you go on and please answer the question what you think fakers should be wearing.

Not realty but in my opinion anything else. If you are going to publically act in a way that is not in keeping with being chareidi then dont dress chareidi. It just gives chareidim a bad rap. I say this as someone who leans more yesheivish but whose husband stopped dressing yesheivish because he no longer aligns with that world.
I think there might be a difference in under 18 when they are children. I don't have boys and my priority is my girls dress tznius, after that it's up to them but with the boys it's not a tznius issue.

amother

Marigold

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:24 pm

Reality wrote:

Not necessarily true. Their parents are busy running around getting them fake mental health pturs instead.

Many are real. There is a reason they are where they are. My sister in RBS has 3 kids with mental health pturs and boy are they legit…

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 4:29 pm

Listen, in general, I'm live and let live when it comes to clothes. But again, this is a red herring to distract us from the real crux of the problem.

I have no problem for serious learners to get a ptur from the army. It's the chareidi world's bombastic language and demand that not one boy can serve that gets me upset. There are plenty that can serve and they won't be sacrificing their non-existent Torah studies.