 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
amother
|
 Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:05 pm
| Golde wrote: | You keep saying how if one is going anyway, it isn't much of an effort to take a friend. So let me share my experience from last Friday. It made me think of this thread. Towards the end of the work day, a colleague asked me if I were driving and if she could get a ride home. I accepted and said I was leaving in five minutes. I was happy she asked, I generally enjoy having company in the car. My colleague answered me, "Great, thanks, I'll meet you by the car park in five minutes then". She had something she needed to finish in another part of the building which would take her five minutes.
When the five minutes had passed, I started packing up my things to get ready to leave. Then I remembered I had forgotten to print something important and ran back to the printer room. It took about five minutes. While I was there, I remembered something else I really needed to do before I could leave. The thought of my colleague waiting downstairs really stressed me. I don't like keeping people waiting and I had told her five minutes. I really rushed finishing my last task and didn't complete it properly. Well that was my choice, wasn't it? Of course it was, I could just have taken another ten minutes and let her wait for me. At the end of the day, I was doing her a favour. But I didn't feel comfortable doing so. So the whole favour was becoming quite stressful for me.
Now, this for me, was an extremely small inconvenience, but it made me realise how easily it can become a real inconvenience to take passengers regularly. And yes, I would drive anyway, and yes, she's my friend. |
I think we're splitting hairs because there's no way to really figure how much of an inconvenience it is for him.
I would agree with you that I personally would rather be in the car myself 100% of the time. But he's 18, just got his license and understandably thinks it's cool that he's driving. Am I projecting? Yes, but I know my son and his other friends who are in the process of getting their license think driving makes you super cool.
Also, like I said above, the car is saving very little money because they could easily all share an uber at only a slightly added expense. This also tells me this kid wants to drive because it makes him feel good. Which is great. It's not the same as us adults who obviously hardly remember the days when we were looking for an excuse to drive because we thought it made us cool.
| |
|
| Back to top |
 1
 3
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:06 pm
| amother OP wrote: | You are still in strawman territory. The issue isn't that he's 18 vs 35. The issues are.
1. He's a good friend.
2. There is very minimal inconvenience.
Putting this example side, are you saying that there is no scenario where you wouldn't approach charging friends and random strangers differently? They are all one and the same to you in every circumstance? |
I own a service based business. My good friends would NEVER think I owe them my service because it’s a “minimal inconvenience”
Let’s also note that YOU decided that it’s not inconvenient. No one can decide whether a favor is convenient other than the person doing the favor
You seem to be a kind of oblivious and very entitled person. Is there any way you could take a step back and maturely examine this from another angle??
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
11
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:09 pm
Usually a little over an hour.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
↑
Golde
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:12 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I think we're splitting hairs because there's no way to really figure how much of an inconvenience it is for him.
I would agree with you tat I personally would rather be in the car myself 100% of the time. But he's 18, just got his license and understandably thinks it's cool that he's driving. Am I projecting? Yes, but I know my son and his other friends who are in the process of getting their license think driving makes you super cool.
Also, like I said above, the car is saving very little money because the could easily all share an uber at only a slightly added expense. This also tells me this kid wants to drive because it makes him feel good. Which is great. It's not the same as us adults who obviously hardly remember the days when we were looking for an excuse to drive because we thought it made us cool. |
I see your point. However it's maybe best just letting go. It isn't easy to understand other people's choices always.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
0
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:13 pm
| amother Sand wrote: | I own a service based business. My good friends would NEVER think I owe them my service because it’s a “minimal inconvenience”
Let’s also note that YOU decided that it’s not inconvenient. No one can decide whether a favor is convenient other than the person doing the favor
You seem to be a kind of oblivious and very entitled person. Is there any way you could take a step back and maturely examine this from another angle?? |
I would never dream of going to a friend's business and expect freebies and discounts.
As I've detailed in this thread several times I obviously feel there's more at play here than just, hey, your friend has a car. Let's use him for a free ride!
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
3
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 12:18 pm
| Golde wrote: | | I see your point. However it's maybe best just letting go. It isn't easy to understand other people's choices always. |
For sure. Definitely have no intention of making a fuss with the boy about it. We will continue paying him no questions asked. I just wanted to hear opinions about the idea of friends charging friends in certain situation where it seems a little shaky to me.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
2
|
↑
Reality
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 1:09 pm
OP, if charging like an Uber is only a few dollars more, why were you making a big to do to begin with? Just pay this young man the extra ten dollars a week and be happy your son isn't at the mercy of an antisemitic uber/lyft driver.
Honestly, why did you start this thread if it's so little money? Just to bad mouth your son's friend who comes from a "super, dysfunctional family"?
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
14
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 1:41 pm
|
OP, no matter what anyone has said in defense of this bochur, you have disagreed. People have brought so many valid points that encompass compassion, chessed, emmes and mentshlichkeit. But you have resisted and insisted otherwise. I truly feel sorry for you (and for you family) in your perception of this situation and hope you aren't so opinionated and stubborn in real life.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
5
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 1:56 pm
| amother Midnight wrote: | | OP, no matter what anyone has said in defense of this bochur, you have disagreed. People have brought so many valid points that encompass compassion, chessed, emmes and mentshlichkeit. But you have resisted and insisted otherwise. I truly feel sorry for you (and for you family) in your perception of this situation and hope you aren't so opinionated and stubborn in real life. |
Actually I have clearly agreed with some point such as the fact that he's a disadvantaged boy mean I should fargin. When something is done on a regular basis it deserves pay more so than a one time favor.
Yes, I will disagree forever with those who compare this to not paying someone who builds my sukkah. I will disagree with those who tried to say that I don't think he should get paid because he's 18.
But you obviously didn't read the entire thread so it's understandable why you would make a comment like this.
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
3
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 2:02 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Actually I have clearly agreed with some point such as the fact that he's a disadvantaged boy mean I should fargin. When something is done on a regular basis it deserves pay more so than a one time favor.
Yes, I will disagree forever with those who compare this to not paying someone who builds my sukkah. I will disagree with those who tried to say that I don't think he should get paid because he's 18.
But you obviously didn't read the entire thread so it's understandable why you would make a comment like this. |
You literally spent the whole thread arguing these points
You are so caught up in not being proven wrong that you are losing track of your arguments
I’m honestly so turned off from this mostly because of your inability to stand back and say- “I was wrong”
And then insisting that you said things that you didn’t.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
6
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 2:02 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | For sure. Definitely have no intention of making a fuss with the boy about it. We will continue paying him no questions asked. I just wanted to hear opinions about the idea of friends charging friends in certain situation where it seems a little shaky to me. |
But you actually did make a fuss, you shamed him behind his back to his friend- your son.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
13
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 2:14 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I think we're splitting hairs because there's no way to really figure how much of an inconvenience it is for him.
I would agree with you that I personally would rather be in the car myself 100% of the time. But he's 18, just got his license and understandably thinks it's cool that he's driving. Am I projecting? Yes, but I know my son and his other friends who are in the process of getting their license think driving makes you super cool.
Also, like I said above, the car is saving very little money because they could easily all share an uber at only a slightly added expense. This also tells me this kid wants to drive because it makes him feel good. Which is great. It's not the same as us adults who obviously hardly remember the days when we were looking for an excuse to drive because we thought it made us cool. |
He doesn’t deserve to get paid because being considered cool is enough payment?
Look, it clearly bothers you a lot. Maybe your son should just take an Uber.
But don’t begrudge this boy his fees because you feel being cool should be enough compensation for him.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
10
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 2:16 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Actually I have clearly agreed with some point such as the fact that he's a disadvantaged boy mean I should fargin. When something is done on a regular basis it deserves pay more so than a one time favor.
Yes, I will disagree forever with those who compare this to not paying someone who builds my sukkah. I will disagree with those who tried to say that I don't think he should get paid because he's 18.
But you obviously didn't read the entire thread so it's understandable why you would make a comment like this. | How is driving your son different from building your sukkah? Please explain.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
|
amother
NeonBlue
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:01 pm
I have some experience on both ends- my son being the driver, my son being the passenger.
Honestly OP, I’m surprised you never offered to pay for the ride, and this boy had to ask for it on his own.
If someone was driving my son regularly, especially someone from a difficult family situation- I would have my son OFFER to pay him regularly. How on earth could I not grab the opportunity to help a friend of my son?? And to take advantage of the fact that he was driving anyway and only pay for gas and tolls? What about wear and tear? And insurance?
This must be a very nice boy that he makes you think driving your son is no big deal. That takes thought and real kindness.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
9
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:29 pm
| amother Peachpuff wrote: | | But you actually did make a fuss, you shamed him behind his back to his friend- your son. |
How did I shame him? By telling my son that in these circumstances we wouldn't charge friends? That's shaming him???
| |
|
| Back to top |
4
3
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:34 pm
| amother Purple wrote: | | How is driving your son different from building your sukkah? Please explain. |
A person building a sukkah is using their time and labor for profit with the intention is a for profit business.
The boy who is driving his friends home needs to get home himself. The driver actually needs the other boys in the car to help with gas and tolls in order to help himself.
| |
|
| Back to top |
6
2
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:36 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Actually I have clearly agreed with some point such as the fact that he's a disadvantaged boy mean I should fargin. When something is done on a regular basis it deserves pay more so than a one time favor.
Yes, I will disagree forever with those who compare this to not paying someone who builds my sukkah. I will disagree with those who tried to say that I don't think he should get paid because he's 18.
But you obviously didn't read the entire thread so it's understandable why you would make a comment like this. |
No, no, no!!! You're missing the point. Stop perceiving him as a "disadvantaged boy" who you need to "fargin". He's a guy who's doing a great service for your son and earning a living in a respectable way, your kids should only be hearing and seeing the good about this guy.
And yes, I have been following from the beginning and thinking about the what people have written because initially I had some sympathy for your point of view but after really thinking about it and really thinking about a Torah true perspective I came to the conclusion most other posters came to.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
9
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:50 pm
| amother NeonBlue wrote: | I have some experience on both ends- my son being the driver, my son being the passenger.
Honestly OP, I’m surprised you never offered to pay for the ride, and this boy had to ask for it on his own.
If someone was driving my son regularly, especially someone from a difficult family situation- I would have my son OFFER to pay him regularly. How on earth could I not grab the opportunity to help a friend of my son?? And to take advantage of the fact that he was driving anyway and only pay for gas and tolls? What about wear and tear? And insurance?
This must be a very nice boy that he makes you think driving your son is no big deal. That takes thought and real kindness. |
All of this.
OP. if a group gets a ride once they pay for gas and tolls.
If their friend is driving AN HOUR EACH WAY on a weeekly basis while the rest
chill/learn/sleep then the mentschluch thing to do is pay more than gas/tolls towards his car maintenance, his effort. Etc.
Regarding him liking the hour drive well "love what you do snd you'll never work a day in your life".
Lucky him. Doesnt mean he doesnt deserve anything.
Plus, Im skeptical hes excited to drive 2 hours every single week. It gets old fast.
Yes, yes, he should charge much less than an Uber. He doesn't pay taxes, dispatcher fees. Special insurance. Its convenient and on his way.
Someobe can talk to him nicely that just because its fair to charge, doesnt mean he should go all out on his friends backs. Try to negotiate with him.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
2
|
amother
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:55 pm
| amother Purple wrote: | He doesn’t deserve to get paid because being considered cool is enough payment?
Look, it clearly bothers you a lot. Maybe your son should just take an Uber.
But don’t begrudge this boy his fees because you feel being cool should be enough compensation for him. |
At some point these responses are comical. I list several reasons why I feel paying for this isn't the right thing and you cherry pick one of them and isolate it and pretend as if it all comes down to this.
Ok, if it suits you, I feel that feeling cool for the ride home is fair payment.
| |
|
| Back to top |
4
1
|
↑
peace2
|
Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:57 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | How did I shame him? By telling my son that in these circumstances we wouldn't charge friends? That's shaming him??? |
Not shaming him to his face, but making it into a "teachable moment" for your son at his expense - your son will prob now have a different view of this boy and look down at him
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
7
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Making new friends as an introvert
|
2 |
Thu, Sep 12 2024, 2:41 pm  |
|
|
Have you ever met/became friends with s/o through imamother?
|
34 |
Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:44 pm |
|
|
Boys daycamp- no friends, but wants to go
|
10 |
Tue, Aug 20 2024, 6:26 pm |
|
|
Do you look at your teenagers phone?
|
36 |
Thu, Aug 08 2024, 8:19 am |
|
|
S/o friends couple vacations together
|
37 |
Mon, Jul 22 2024, 11:38 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
