Should teenagers be charging friends?

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 3:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

Sorry if I implied that thought it was ok to expect friends to give freebies on their business. Definitely not. I thought this scenario was a little different because it involved the driver driving himself anyway and therefore wasn't inconveniencing himself.

I can't think of a genuinely similar example. Maybe this. Every day I buy myself a coffee and my neighbor asks me if I can pick one up for her a few times a week. So I'm not really inconveniencing myself, and I'm doing a favor on a somewhat regular basis.

Many here say that's beyond chessed and because of the regularity it's now business and a charge for a profit would be the way to go.

You keep saying it's only a minor inconvenience for him. Who's to say? You? What if that's not his experience? Why are you assuming?

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's not that it's not that big an inconvenience. Is that it's not that big an inconvenience COMBINED with these are his buddies. That's why I don't think he should be profiting here.

The other thing I'll say is that this boy WANTS to drive. Think how you (or at least many of us) were after just getting your license recently. Driving is cool and fun.

The group as a whole is saving a minimal amount of money by paying him gas and tolls. Another $10 a kid or less would actually pay for an uber. This boy most certainly was not backed into anything. They could easily been sharing an uber. In fact I would say he needs them more than they need him because if they all left and took an uber without him, he'd be stuck with the entire expense. That would be harder on him than it would be on the rest of the group to cumulatively pick up his share of the uber.

As to your last point about him being from a broken family, I already said I agree. I will pay him with a big smile. I'm just talking in general about whether it's appropriate for friends to charge in certain instances.

If it was really so cool and fun for him he wouldn't be charging. But he is. Meaning the inconvenience on his end isn't matching up with your perception of the inconvenience.

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think we're splitting hairs because there's no way to really figure how much of an inconvenience it is for him.

BUT THERE IS A WAY!!!!
If this isn't inconveniencing him he wouldn't charge.
He is charging, which means there's a reason. He's not experiencing this situation the way you are imagining he is. He's asking for pay thereby communicating that he wants to be payed for this. Read the room.

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

The boy who is driving his friends home needs to get home himself. The driver actually needs the other boys in the car to help with gas and tolls in order to help himself.

This is your assumption. The boy obviously feels differently.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:55 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

If it was really so cool and fun for him he wouldn't be charging. But he is. Meaning the inconvenience on his end isn't matching up with your perception of the inconvenience.

I don't see any logic here. The fact that he's charging somehow proves he doesn't enjoy driving? Why not?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 4:57 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

This is your assumption. The boy obviously feels differently.

I'm not following. This boy dorms with others during the week and like everyone else comes home for shabbos.

Yes, he is benefitting from sharing the car with others or he would have to absorb more of the cost himself. This is all fact.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:00 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

HUH? AREN'T YOU THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP AGE AS A FACTOR HERE? This isn't adding up

I brought up his age as one (of several) reasons why I didn't feel he should charge.

I think it was in response to someone who said that sharing a car with others is a bit of a burden. I said I agree. However, when a kid is 18 and just got their license and car, they usually don't feel driving is a burden they way adults do.

This alone is certainly not a reason not to pay him.

amother

↑ Hyssop ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

The rest of the boys are mooching off their friend's investment in a car and time driving. Even if they pay for gas/tolls. This is all fact.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:02 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

Why can't it not inconvenience him, and he still charge? Is that greedy? You seem to think so. Why isn't this a possibility?

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:09 pm

amother OP wrote:

Ok let’s count the reasons.

1. He’s a teenager
2. Driving is cool for teens
3. Your husband drove his friends to the mountains and didn’t charge
4. You hosted him for shabbos meals
5. He’s driving anyway
6. No one will want to be his friend if he doesn’t charge
7. You could just take an Uber

Anything else? Because so far all I’m seeing is 0. Seven zeros is still zero.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Hyssop wrote:

The rest of the boys are mooching off their friend's investment in a car and time driving. Even if they pay for gas/tolls. This is all fact.

Ok, let's figure it out. The car is worth around $6000. The ride is around 30-35 miles each way. It comes out to 300 miles a month and 2500 miles a year.

It's this boy and 4 friends. If we divide the 2500 miles by 5, each boy is responsible for 500 miles. We than have to calculate how much less a 12 year old car is worth because of an additional 500 miles on it. And then collect that money from each friend. Is this how you do things?

They're not mooching off the time driving because the boy is driviing himself.

↑ farm

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

Again, I've seen many good comments here but this one is off. The driver here is going very little out of his way. He'd be driving himself home anyway and the boys all live right next to each other.

This is very different than your scenario where a person asks another to literally babysit her kid every day for an hour. What???

You are going to the exact same bus stop at the exact same time to get your kids. What’s the big deal to get hers too?
Your kids are hanging out in the backyard or playroom letting out some energy after a long day in school. What’s the big deal to add a couple of extra kids? In fact, your kids will be occupied and happier for longer because they have additional playmates. Hey, maybe you should pay her for having her kids over after school!

amother

Seablue

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

But he wouldn’t need to drive himself if someone else is the one driving all the boys.

OP, is this about the money?

amother

↑ Firethorn ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:24 pm

OP, the problem is that you are not transactional by nature.
You do things for people, and I am sure you stretch yourself to do them and do them with pleasure. It hurts when you are happy to do favors and help others and people don’t reciprocate in kind.
Apparently, most women here are not wired like you are. I have learned here long ago -especially reading hosting/making meals/carpooling/having other people’s kids Shabbos afternoon threads that people only help out when it is of absolute no tircha to them at all, are happy to say no and think everything is a boundary and self care.
B”H I am likeminded with you. I imagine you probably grew up with a good home-life, with parents who wanted to do/give to you and modeled chessed, even when it was sometimes a little hard.

amother

↑ Sand

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:29 pm

amother Firethorn wrote:

Nope. The problem is that you do chessed from yourself and you NEVER expect others to do chessed. That makes you entitled
And honestly, the fact that it’s so hard for OP to Fargin this boy some money shows that she is NOT being chessed minded. It’s all about herself and her own perceptions and expectations

amother

↑ Firethorn ↓

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:30 pm

FYI to all of you, my DDs who are between 18-22 hate to drive alone in the car, especially if it is a distance. Do you think he would rather be alone in the car or he is thinking that he is driving them anyway so why not make some money off of it.
And if someone else is driving all the boys, maybe it doesn’t include driving him.

Yes? My DD makes a 181 mile drive which is minutes shy of 3 hours. She always packs her car with 3-4 other kids (some she barely knows. Why should they have to take the bus/Uber or have parents drive them and then make a 6 hour trip.
It is menchlich when they pay for gas. Really nice when they stop at a gas station and get her a drink, but she is going anyway.

amother

↑ Firethorn

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 5:38 pm

amother Sand wrote:

You do chessed from yourself, but at some point you become a shmata and taken advantage of, turned off, and bitter-maybe you are on a higher madrega than me that people can take advantage of you and you an just think mitzva dollars, mitzva dollars, mitzva dollars. I know that if I made 40-50 meal train meals over the course of 3 years and then I had a baby and the train was empty and nobody signed up, I would think long and hard before I volunteered to make a meal again.

I don’t know or understand the position the boy is in. I don’t know what OP knows or doesn’t know, and one should have different excavations for themselves and for others, but I don’t think she is so evil and this is so black and white