oh - and by the way - most of my 'errands' cant wait for sunday. as a matter of fact I do almost nothing on sunday, as I cant go shopping with my toddler. It waits for the tiny sliver of time that he's at therapy. IYH come september, I'll have all week. (exept sunday )
You only mentioned one therapy on your list but I imagine 20 sessions a week is a lot. We never have had more than 2 a day. Which I am grateful for b/c they're not all dropoff so it's hard with the younger kids. It was so much easier during EI when they came to our apartment. Also, one of my tricks is to make snacktime for the younger ones coincide with their therapy waiting time.
Wel, think of how efficient you'll be next year with both kids in school. You'll be able to run all your errands in one morning. Your house will be spotless (and empty) all day!
Btw as a former working mom....errands are run on Sundays or on the way home from work. Occasionally at night when dh might be home you find the drugstore or supermarket that stays open a bit later. Not everyting closes at 8. As a SAHM you just spread out all the errands, cooking and housework ove the course of the day or week but it's obviously not any less to do if you work full time. The same errands have to be run, the same mouths have to be fed etc
At risk of being slammed....
I work full time and have B"H a house full of kids. On top of working, I have to shop, cook, clean, do homework and spend time with my kids, and fit in all their appointments.
I sometimes wonder what SAHMs do all day. I somehow have to manage to get all that work done between 8 and 11 at night. If I was home all day, even if I had to spend the time caring for my kids, the amount of work to be done is the same.
I'm not referring to someone with a special needs kid--that is a different ballgame. But for your average woman who is home with 1, 2 or 3 kids. Can't you go shopping once a week at night with your husband watching the kids, then you have everything in the house. Cleaning is hard with kids around, but you can straighten up every night and clean one room per day. Then you have the whole day to cook supper and play with your kids, with time to go to the different appointments. Sounds like a dream to me!
Most of the stores are CLOSED AT NIGHT!!! only the grocery store is open til 11 p.m. If you need a new outfit, new clothing for the kids, stuff from the pharmacy, whatever - forget it!!! everything closes by 6 or 7. Even if someone's husband comes home at 6 - he's just come home from a long day at work, needs a hot meal, not to get his brood thrust on him while mommy runs out - and doesnt even manage to find all the stores open.
Plus, uh, the toddler needs to air out too, no? Why should the toddler sit home all day, and climb the walls....
what do sahm's do all day? TONS....!!!!
Anyway my perspective is different since I did everything on top of organizing my kid's therapy schedule and running to a gajillion appts about his therapy, his brother's OT (Bh it's just OT!) my own health/fertility issues, yada yada..... it's been an insane year. but seriously, you can't do all your shopping in a scant half hour in the evening when dh is home. and I'm not even talking about 'fun' shopping. I always, always always have long to-do lists. they just are never done. and I only have 2 kids.
See I think the fact MB that you can write it all out in such detail, is the problem. Most people don't dwell on these little things. I must sweep the floor 5 times a day but if I had to write down what I did today, that would never make the list. My 2 yr old's tantrums would not make the list. The fact that in my 10 yrs of parenting I have almost never gotten around to lunch before 2pm (and I truly believe this is a typical thing for any busy person) would never make the list. None of your little details make the list for most people. That's all just...life. Every mom I know either has a serious family stress or medical stress or horrible job situation or multiples or something...everyone has something stressful in their life. And if I really stopped to think about all the little not so enjoyable things that compose my day, which is not unlike yours, stairs included, I would be as run down as you seem to be. But it would be more of an emotional toll from taking it all so seriously.
I am truly happy your break is coming as soon as Tuesday b/c clearly you're not coping with your load in a healthy way.
If you compare a 2 yr old tantrums to an almost 3 year old with PDD-NOS and a crazy schedule every day of the week for 10 months.... well, fine, so be it.
I'm sorry I even spoke up in this thread. I had stopped talking about my life and it was the healthiest thing ever. Letting myself be roped into this discussion was one of the worst decisions I've made in a long time. Whoever is going to bash or slam me - at least dont do it as amother. it's very hurtful.
You only mentioned one therapy on your list but I imagine 20 sessions a week is a lot. We never have had more than 2 a day. Which I am grateful for b/c they're not all dropoff so it's hard with the younger kids. It was so much easier during EI when they came to our apartment. Also, one of my tricks is to make snacktime for the younger ones coincide with their therapy waiting time.
Wel, think of how efficient you'll be next year with both kids in school. You'll be able to run all your errands in one morning. Your house will be spotless (and empty) all day!
Btw as a former working mom....errands are run on Sundays or on the way home from work. Occasionally at night when dh might be home you find the drugstore or supermarket that stays open a bit later. Not everyting closes at 8. As a SAHM you just spread out all the errands, cooking and housework ove the course of the day or week but it's obviously not any less to do if you work full time. The same errands have to be run, the same mouths have to be fed etc
At risk of being slammed....
I work full time and have B"H a house full of kids. On top of working, I have to shop, cook, clean, do homework and spend time with my kids, and fit in all their appointments.
I sometimes wonder what SAHMs do all day. I somehow have to manage to get all that work done between 8 and 11 at night. If I was home all day, even if I had to spend the time caring for my kids, the amount of work to be done is the same.
I'm not referring to someone with a special needs kid--that is a different ballgame. But for your average woman who is home with 1, 2 or 3 kids. Can't you go shopping once a week at night with your husband watching the kids, then you have everything in the house. Cleaning is hard with kids around, but you can straighten up every night and clean one room per day. Then you have the whole day to cook supper and play with your kids, with time to go to the different appointments. Sounds like a dream to me!
as a sahm, I can tell you that everyone's situation is different. many working moms have out of house babysitting, which lessens the daily cleanup routine-- this includes picking up, sweeping up, and washing more dishes. those who have in home babysitting generally expect their sitters to make sure the house is in decent shape when they come home. homes require more maintenance per hour it is occupied. you may get it all done between 8 and 11, but if you have to walk through it all day, it can't wait until then. cleanup may happen multiple times a day.
cleaning one room per day accomplishes nothing. by the next day, it's as if it has never been cleaned. you have to work hard to keep it neat instead of having to reclean it. as for shopping, I always took my kids with me. I have them trained from young ages not to eat things off the shelves until we pay, and they know not to expect treats. when they're big enough, they help me put things in the cart. I would never wait till my husband comes home. the earliest he gets home is 8:30, on average (he'll come home early for special occasions, but then he gets home at about 7:30. very rare, anyway). he also comes home less than an hour before shabbos. he finally convinced me to hire a cleaning lady for 2 hours friday morning so I wouldn't be so exhausted, but by the time the kids have gotten to those rooms it's kinda pointless.
I wasn't able to make my own appointments easily until my older kid was in school. I was able to drop my daughter off at a neighbor's (she has an at-home babysitter who we know well), but beforehand I couldn't take care of myself. I pushed off some important appointments for over a year. I actually find that the working moms I know have a much easier time with this. they can schedule appointments on a lunch break (assuming there's no wait) or ask the babysitter for extended hours.
the only working mom I know well who has an at-home babysitter has the sitter do the kids' laundry. this takes up a LOT of my time. as far as supper goes, some nights I cook proper meals, some nights I take the easy route. I do my job full time, and I don't have a babysitter who can stay late for me if I'm desperate for a little time alone. my kids see my husband for a short time in the morning. I'm the designated parent for everything else.
my status has changed since my kids started school. I have since gone back to college, which takes way more of my time than I'd like. believe it or not, schoolwork does interfere with housework. and most of the time, if I take time to sit and relax, it's done when ignoring housework, not when the housework is done. sometimes I just need a break.
it is still a dream to me, though. sahm is my career of choice, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to be one. I don't think it's fair of anyone to assume that someone else has it easier, though. there are hardships inherent in being a working parent, and those in being a stay-at-home one. everyone has their challenges.
I have two toddlers at home with me, I'll tell you what goes on. Each one looks for the biggest trouble possible and then they do it together too.
My entire day is filled with situations like this: In the middle of changing the younger one's diaper, the older one decides he must go to the bathroom that second (thank G-d he's trained) but if I don't help him, he'll miss the toilet. So I finish up the younger one asap and run over to the older one, lucky if I get there on time. If not, I have a mess to clean up. Either way, while I'm with the older one, the younger one finds some kind of trouble and creates a new mess for me. While I'm cleaning that, the phone rings, and my toddlers watch me answer it gleefully because they know the fridge is theirs while I'm on the phone. I barely say "hi" and "bye" on the phone, and then go extricate the third plum from each toddler's hands and the giant raisin box. Close the fridge, clean them up, wash the floor again from all the plum juice, and by the time I turn around, one of them is climbing the bunkbed, the other is sitting in the bathroom sink with the water turned on. Get that fixed up, turn around, they're both banging on my new laptop which was opened because I had to check if I got an important email. Solve that situation and they run to hide next to the oven, where their favorite activity is to open the bottom broiler and stick things inside, like my cordless phone.
Get the picture? I do this all day. Trouble is the name of their game, and clean up and chase is mine. I do sit down and do activities with them- for the past while I've been making sure my older one knows his colors, read them books, color, paint, rubber stamps, go to the park (at my own risk since they both run in different directions OUT of the park onto the street), go shopping, etc. But none of these things take up much time and naptime has become extinct. Along with my dinner prep and deep cleaning. At the end of the day I don't feel like doing anything, not more cooking, not more cleaning. I just want to sit and get my headache gone.
Would I trade all this for a job out of the house? No way. As the mother, I feel that all this is my job. That doesn't mean I enjoy every second of it or that it's easy. It is what it is.
When everyone's out of the house all day, if you leave it clean, you come home to a clean house. Very different than when people are home during the day.
Gryp I admire you for keeping your almost 3 yr old home til now...but htis is the reason I feel that wen they are close to 3 it's time for them to go to preschool. at home they just get into trouble and at preschool theyre creatively occupied.... just my2c.
Why is there a need to prove why I feel my life is harder than another's? If I feel that I work hard / deserve a break, then I and only I will be the one to judge that!
Now, if we're talking about taking tzedakah or asking people to help fund my kids camp, then the situation may warrant an analysis. But for someone to decide that Mama Bear (or anyone else for that matter) is complaining too much or too little makes me .
I think housework is a great way to keep kids busy, albeit not in way friedasima described.
My dad would always use that trick.
"I'm bored."
"Oh, you have time? Great! I was thinking we could clean the basement today."
"Uhhh... I was going to ask you if (friend) and I can go into town."
"That sounds like a great idea."
That sounds like good old-fashioned upbringing. Aren't you too young to have experienced that? Dad should have answered: Sweetie, what can I do to help you not be bored?
This thread has turned to silliness yet again. The bottom line is that everyone knows the summer is coming. Everyone knows that most schools will be out. Everyone knows that there is the camp option. Everyone knows that camp costs money. Everyone knows that a working mom will have to pay because there is no one to watch the children. Since most mothers seem to be working these days, it's a non issue.
If you are a SAHM with limited funds, you can perhaps see the point of view that camp is a luxury and plan for the eventuality that you will need to entertain your children during the summer. Approach it from another angle: than you are FORTUNATE to be able to stay home and see to their needs. That's a lot better than worrying you won't be able to do it. It's not a punishment, unless your children are unwanted in the first place and you resent having to take on this extra burden of being with them all summer.
No where in the Torah does it say parenting is easy. No where does it say you won't be a shmatta after caring for them all day. In fact, I believe the scriputures support the notion that having children is difficult from the moment they are being born. Nothing new under the sun. The only new thing is the way women approach needing to look after their brood all summer. This is life and we need to make the best of it. Or not have children.
It's a better idea to approach suggestions her for surviving the summer positively (THIS may work for me) that to go on and on about why your circumstances won't allow it to work. Everyone has circumstances. The question is how you rise above them.
No one really cares whether you send your children to camp on your own dime or have to ask for assistance. No one really cares whether you can balance your check book or not. Or whether you keep your house neat and your children clean. Those are things you should care about for yourself!
Why is there a need to prove why I feel my life is harder than another's? If I feel that I work hard / deserve a break, then I and only I will be the one to judge that!
Now, if we're talking about taking tzedakah or asking people to help fund my kids camp, then the situation may warrant an analysis. But for someone to decide that Mama Bear (or anyone else for that matter) is complaining too much or too little makes me .
amother -
I'm not exactly a SAHM because I work most days, but because of my schedule I have most of the day with the kids plus days off. Based on that, my idea of what SAHMs do all day -
amother wrote:
I sometimes wonder what SAHMs do all day. I somehow have to manage to get all that work done between 8 and 11 at night. If I was home all day, even if I had to spend the time caring for my kids, the amount of work to be done is the same.
The bolded is most of it. Of any given 9-5 period spent home with kids, for me, about 1.5-2.5 hours is spent bringing them outside somewhere (park or library or the like), another 30-60 minutes is spent reading stories, and plenty more time is spent joining their games at home, getting activities ready for them (finding the crayons, etc), slowing work down by a factor of 3 or 4 so they can "help" me (eg. spending 20 minutes making cookies instead of 5), and doing the physical care for them (changing diapers, helping them use the bathroom, putting on shoes, all that good stuff).
So even if it's two little kids instead of a mix of younger and older kids, most of the time is spent just being with them.
Then there's the extra work created because they're home - making lunch, cleaning up, making snacks, cleaning up, doing the extra dishes, cleaning spills, all that.
I once tried to do the calculations and figured out that I did about 1.5 hours of housework (cooking, cleaning and laundry) during the day, 45 minutes of which I would have needed to do even if the kids hadn't been home. Now, 45 minutes is huge, I'd love to have 45 extra minutes per day. But it's not on the "what shall I do with all this free time" level of huge either.
Incredulous at some women's not realizing that what they describe is normal motherhood and what may make it so difficult for them is their unrealistic expectation of the correlation between lifestyle choices and the results of some of those choices.
Incredulous at some women's trying to emulate what they have been taught was the "proper" or "ideal" Jewish way of life in the past (large families, husband learning, no "non jewish" education that could get them a higher paying job but in the non jewish world) but wanting the much more luxurious existence of today instead of the same existence with the same problems and the same exhaustion (!) that those past Jewish women had living that type of life that the young girls are emulating.
And most of all, incredulous at their insisting that we - those with smaller families, those whose husbands work, those whose husbands got a secular education, at times delaying marriage for a year or two because of it, and who therefore have higher paying jobs, and particularly those of us women who both work and care for families - pay for THEIR lifestyle choices, basically telling us that THEY are living the correct way (but can't cope without OUR money to pay for those choices.
Not bitter but a bit shocked at the chutzpa!
Remember, the thread wasn't about women who make these choices and then complain how hard it is for them, but don't ask anything (but sympathy which most women would readily give) from others.
It was about women who choose to stay at home and not work outside the house but can't cope with their kids and insist that their children MUST go away to camp otherwise they will not cope (the mothers and the children) and...and here's the point - telling us that WE must pay for that camp for their children.
So some of us don't get it.
and it only gets more ludicrous when some of these women try to describe their day and hey, we all went through it, there is nothing so different about what they describe and what every mother goes through at some point, and then they use the argument that this generation is weaker bla bla bla.
Folks, if this generation is weaker don't try to emulate the lifestyle of stronger generations who lived under different circumstances. If you don't have koyach and money for it don't have ten kids. All those Jewish generations with the big families? They usually didn't do it in two room brooklyn apartments but rather in yehupitz in Poland in a house where the kids were out for most of the day and no one expected more than a mattress on the floor at night to sleep 100 plus years ago. If you have bigger expectations but not much more money than that, don't blame us for not wanting to be fools to pay for your choices.
I think housework is a great way to keep kids busy, albeit not in way friedasima described.
My dad would always use that trick.
"I'm bored."
"Oh, you have time? Great! I was thinking we could clean the basement today."
"Uhhh... I was going to ask you if (friend) and I can go into town."
"That sounds like a great idea."
That sounds like good old-fashioned upbringing. Aren't you too young to have experienced that? Dad should have answered: Sweetie, what can I do to help you not be bored?
YES!!! I am far too young to have experienced such an upbringing.
Believe me, I tried to tell him that about a zillion and one times as a kid .
He also doesn't believe in air conditioning, doesn't think it's his job to take kids to extracurriculars, and thinks that things like shoveling the walk, mowing the lawn, and washing dishes by hand all build character. Oh, and doesn't think anyone, child or teen or adult, should watch television, although he did compromise on 1-2 hours per week.
What can I say, I whined but in retrospect I wouldn't have it any other way - just nobody tell him I said that.
It may not build character but it sure teaches you survival skills.
I have a friend from Sarajevo. She grew up in a normal middle class family. Household help. Good schooling. Nice clothing. Suddenly a civil war broke out. War. Shelling. No food. If her mother didn't know how to make bread and make homemade everything they would have starved.
Teaches you something. You don't have to live a certain way all the time but you should as heck know how to do it if you have to. That, BTW is what the army is all about here at least in kravi (battle units). They put you through lots of miserable stuff to show you what you are capable of if necessary. And yes, in this country at least it can become necessary.
I read the descriptions of mothers and their day and I don't really see the difference between that and what my best friend who had five kids like me but was a SAHM went through twenty five years ago. She had three special needs kids with therapy, made everything from scratch as they lived on one small salary, made her own cosmetics as cremes etc. were too expensive, and lives on the fifth floor with an elevator that was broken half the time anyhow. As she used to say, you know that being a mother means that you won't sleep a night straight for at least fifteen years, so what? And it means that you don't have time for yourself, so what? And it means that you end up yelling at your kids from frustration, so what? They grow up, you get older, and that's the rythm of life, and you try to enjoy in between. Today one of her kids is married, one is working, one is studying, and her two special needs boys are in hesder and army. All five are beautiful frum adults. She is gorgeous, finally has time to take care of herself (along with her four granchildren who are always over) and wouldn't have changed it for the world. She is NOT superwoman but an average normal SAHM who lived within her means, never sent her kids to camp as she never had the money, and never had an overdraft, which, for an Israeli is quite a feat. THAT is my example of what a SAHM is.
I think housework is a great way to keep kids busy, albeit not in way friedasima described.
My dad would always use that trick.
"I'm bored."
"Oh, you have time? Great! I was thinking we could clean the basement today."
"Uhhh... I was going to ask you if (friend) and I can go into town."
"That sounds like a great idea."
That sounds like good old-fashioned upbringing. Aren't you too young to have experienced that? Dad should have answered: Sweetie, what can I do to help you not be bored?
YES!!! I am far too young to have experienced such an upbringing.
Believe me, I tried to tell him that about a zillion and one times as a kid .
He also doesn't believe in air conditioning, doesn't think it's his job to take kids to extracurriculars, and thinks that things like shoveling the walk, mowing the lawn, and washing dishes by hand all build character. Oh, and doesn't think anyone, child or teen or adult, should watch television, although he did compromise on 1-2 hours per week.
What can I say, I whined but in retrospect I wouldn't have it any other way - just nobody tell him I said that.
and that, my dear, is what is HARD about parenting. Actually doing the job! Kudos to your dad: he did a great job! Mom too!
"I also don't understand why people are choosing to be SAHMs if they don't like their children."
Oh, it's an in thing. We don't like our children at all. We're just looking for an excuse to be lazy.
Tova, I pay for my kids' school kaitana roughly what you pay for your backyard day camp. That price is still difficult for some Israeli families. Should their kids be stuck at home?
I am being serious. I thought the value of being a stay at home mum is because you believe that you should be with your children and not having others take care of them. If you don't want to be home with your children, why not work?
No I don't think housekeeping and errands is a full days work. Working mothers do these things too.
Why not work? I guess it is not always so easy! You make it seem as if it was the easiest thing to find a job nowadays..
So your alternative is send them out and what while they are out?????
You are making it sound like everyone always has a chance to just sit down and arrange their lives he way they found fit. Unfortunately the world does not function this way. Sometimes a mother is a type who would rather work and be with her kids in the evenings, and be a better mother than if she were spending all day with them. Sometimes such a mother cannot work for some reason, but it still does not make it easier for her to stay home with them, so she will send them out (and go to a job interview or a doctor appointment while they are there)
)
.
.
