Daughter in Twenties is ANGRY at me

Isramom8

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:29 pm

I'm not saying that all still-single frumchildren in their twenties should move out. I'm saying that this behavior shows the need to separate and develop a more adult relationship with the parents. If this can be done while the child lives at home, fine. If not, then a seminary dorm can be a good idea. Or if the child is too old, then yes, maybe living with roomates, or as a mother's helper, etc.

Sometimes living apart helps a young woman see herself as responsible for herself and separate from her childhood family dynamic. It's a step towards successful marriage.

It's not for everyone. Certainly the Israeli Chareidi ideal is for a girl to remain under her parents' roof until she enters her husband's home. But I think the idea here is that with her parents' guidance, she will marry young. Things become problematic the older a girl gets, living in the home where another woman (her mother) is the baalas habayis. She gets confused about whether she is an independent mature adult or bound by childish childhood patterns.

bubby

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:37 pm

Peanut2 wrote:

I am a daughter in her twenties who just got angry at her mother right now, and from my perspective...

she got angry at you because she was angry in general about eating the muffins. She is probably mostly angry at herself, but you were there and you're her mother so she just got angry at you. My sister and I (unfortunately) do that, too. It happens.

Don't tell her that that's what she did. It's infuriating to be told why you did what you did. It may or may not be true, but it's annoying as anything and will likely start a new fight.

Tell her that you're sorry you put the muffins there and that you see how that's a temptation. Then you can say that her reaction is inappropriate and you can add the as long as you live under my roof line.

It's not great for young women of these age to live with their mothers. What about moving in to a flat with roommates, where it's not possible to dump all your problems on your mother? Depending on how responsible she is a as a whole, it might be a very necessary step. Don't throw her out obviously, but maybe you could suggest that she would be happier living in dorms or an apartment with friends.

And responsibility-wise, hiding food in the basement or master bedroom isn't that helpful either. This might be a good opportunity to say that you will make sure not to leave forbidden food on the counter, but that you will be leaving things in the pantry. Unless you buy a lot of fattening food, this is a responsibility thing. She needs to just say no. If you really do buy a lot of fattening stuff, I think it would be much more helpful to stop doing so. Even if you're thin, it's still incredibly unhelpful, and knowing it's not in the house at all will be better for your daughter. Obviously a box of chocolate OR some muffins OR some other unhealthy things is fine, but if you have a selection of sweets and junk anywhere around, that's not so helpful. Even if you're hiding it.

You ARE joking, aren't you? MOM should apologize for buying something to keep in HER home? Does DD pay rent & utilities? Food? And even if she does, would she behave like that if she had a roommate who brought in forbidden foods?

This reaction is nuts, excuse me peanut! Mom, you listen to an old Bubby!! Tell DD to get off her high horse, start pulling her weight (no pun intended) & stop making everyone else suffer. I know what I'd do if she were MY DD! (PM me for the skinny on that [pun intended Wink

])

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 12:43 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

It's not for everyone. Certainly the Israeli Chareidi ideal is for a girl to remain under her parents' roof until she enters her husband's home. But I think the idea here is that with her parents' guidance, she will marry young. Things become problematic the older a girl gets, living in the home where another woman (her mother) is the baalas habayis. She gets confused about whether she is an independent mature adult or bound by childish childhood patterns.

I agree 100%.
Unless they find a good "reason", like a great sem, living at a relative "for university", a mother's helper maybe in a really good place (maybe a good place for shidduchim? or "a year in Eretz" style?)... people will wonder, when it comes to shidduchim.

I know a woman who left the house as an older teen to be a nanny far away because things were very bad with her stepmother. People still asked about it in shidduchim when she was in her late 30's...

freidasima

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:19 pm

Hey everyone, chilll!
This could e one of my kids, it happens here all the time. We have three over 20s living at home, 20.5, 24 and 26 and they are all like this sometimes, maybe boys less but girls? Sure. And not only charedim live at home, for many it's just too expensive to contemplate living elsewhere, especially if you are still studying...
Frustration - sure they are frustrated. And that is what mommy is for, to let it all out against. It's always our fault. My mother told me this decades ago...just wait, she said, being a mother is a no=win situation. So your daughter is angry at you? My daughters are ALWAYS getting upset about this, that and the third thing, one more than the other two, it's in the personality.
The idea is not to take it too seriously, it blows over in a day usually.
Weight - not easy.
Single girls - not easy
overweight single girls - not easy
overweight single girls in shidduchim - not easy
tall girls - not easy
overweight single tall girls - not easy
overweidght single short girls - not easy

And...it's ALWAYS mommys' fault.
As long as you remember that, you don't get upset. It isn't personal.
So...CHILL

shlomitsmum

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:29 pm

I say she showed chutzpah big time ...
The first muffin is temptation ....but the second and third is called free will!
Is she going to become a blimp when she marries and is in charge of her own grocery and cooking?

She should apologize to you and stop being such a brat!
1 muffin is not going to add to an instant weight gain ,if she has one she can survive on low fat salad the next day ,no need to chew anyone out ...no pun intended. Wink

hugs ! and live your life ..DD should be grateful of your help and shelter and not a spoiled nasty primadonna. Mad

Nomad

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:36 pm

yeesh - I wouldnt even acknowledge her if she spoke to me that way.

shes a big girl now and can handle her own diet.

if she talks to you this way, I would just say "when you want to talk to me like an adult, ill be here."

and now my mom will probably get on imamother and say "Nomad - puleeeze remember how you yelled at me before you got married???" so maybe I should be more understanding of your dd. it sounds like she may have been having a rough day.

but in general, I just wouldnt engage her in an argument like that.

amother

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:38 pm

Okay I haven't read all the posts here, but I disagree with some of what I have read. I don't think this one episode means that your daughter needs to be kicked out for her own good. When a person has issues with food it usually isn't about food. Your daughter needs some nutritional and emotional support right now. I would keep her home if thats where she wants to be, because she needs you. She is in a fragile state. Do I think your daughter has major issues and is screwed up? No. She is human. She is dealing with some stuff now. Probably some self-esteem issues and she is "fixing" herself by targeting her frustration on her weight. I don't know for sure. I am not a professional. I HAVE BEEN THROUGH AND OVERCOME AN EATING DISORDER MYSELF and this is my opinion. Did I take it out on my family? Yes. Sometimes I did. I was crying out for help. My mother got me the help I needed and supported me until I was better. Who knows what would have happened if she kicked me out... She needs proper guidance in order to have a healthy relationship with food again.

JRKmommy

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 1:46 pm

Oh, I agree that it's typical behavior. I don't think from this information alone that there is something pathological that requires professional help.

I do think, however, that mom shouldn't tolerate disrespect. Just because it's normal/typical doesn't mean it should be acceptable.

If there is no incentive to stop a behavior, it will generally continue. Kids don't wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I should be more appreciative, only speak to my parents in a nice tone of voice, and phrase requests as questions instead of demands".

If you calmly set out guidelines and then stick to them, though, it often works. Start by explaining (hopefully during a quiet time, not in the middle of a fight) that you be responding to polite requests, and explain that this means using a nice tone of voice and phrasing the request as a question, not demand. When she starts yelling or demanding, give a simple reminder like "tone of voice" or "was that a question?" Otherwise, don't respond to the issue until she speaks respectfully. She'll learn quickly.

Tolerating rude treatment doesn't help your daughter. If she learns to say, "mom, I'm wondering if you would be able to avoid having really yummy but fattening foods around while I'm dieting" instead of "I just ate 2 muffins and it's all your fault! How could you leave them out when you know I'm dieting!", she'll have developed valuable life skills that will allow her to get along with future co-workers and future husband. We've all come across people who vent at others and act like kids. It's not pretty.

Queen18

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 2:10 pm

I don't know your daughter at all and you only gave limited information. But as long as she is generally well adjusted and not habitually tempermental I would just let it go.

As someone who spent many years on the singles scene and lived at home all through my 20's I can say that it is very frustrating and at times depressing. The fact that she got upset and vented makes her human not in need of counseling or a chutpah speech. She likely knows she did not behave properly and feels bad about it herself.

As for her need to lose 15 pounds, that can make her life extra difficult on the shidduch scene. You are right to do everything in your power to help her and should keep up the effort. It is commendable that she is working so hard on something that is obviously difficult for her.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 2:15 pm

I don't think the fact that she ate some muffins means she necessarily has a problematic relationship with food (to those posters who suggested it).

If a person who is not dieting regularly binges on food, so that's a problem. But a person on a diet - a part of their body is hating it, and their brain is urging them to take in more calories (especially if the person is trying to lose weight too quickly, but on a healthy diet as well). To binge in that situation is totally normal, especially if it's just once or twice.

JRKmommy

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 4:18 pm

One more point: you can be supportive, but make sure that the weight loss is HER issue.

This thread reminds me of my MIL and younger SIL, who love each other and drive each other crazy. SIL will be fine when talking to me (and she knows that I wouldn't put up with yelling for a minute), but lets loose on her mother. At the same time, MIL seems to be a bit obsessed with the fact that SIL is still single at 24 (not at all unusual in her circle, btw), so there is some weird nagging on her end too.

Mutual respect and boundaries are important. Be supportive, but don't focus on the weight. Don't get overly concerned about shidduch prospects. Even under the same roof, there can be some independence. I lived at home until I got married, just before turning 25.

Yocheved84

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 6:03 pm

amother wrote:

She's on a diet (she's about 10-15 pounds more than what she'd like to be) and Im happy that she's admitting that her willpower is very weak, so:

*I've stopped baking cakes, cookies, and kugels etc.
*If we buy any high calorie foods (like chips or ice cream) we hide it in the basement or Master bedroom (we're pretty thin).

To try and help her with her dieting (Weight Watchers says family has to be in this with the dieter).

So, this morning, after (I made an exception and pre Tisha B' Av, I baked muffins and) I left muffins on the kitchen table, she yelled at me because she was tempted and ate a few. I yelled back and said she ought to be happy and appreciate all the times that I do everything in my power to help, this was pre-Tisha B'Av. She yelled back that I'm a baby for notrealizingthat itwasmy fault....

I'm glad that she's being careful about her weight, but angry that she yelled at me despite all our efforts for her.

WWYD?

Let me respond as a daughter who has had this fight with her mother:

She is NOT upset at you--she is upset at herself for being around the temptation. She's upset that she ate the muffins and couldn't control herself. On the outside, she's blaming you because you put them on the table. On the inside, she's blaming herself. (Note that she may not be consciously aware of this.) Yes, a family has to be welcoming to a dieter, but she needs to learn over time that she must assert the self-control.

Trust me here.

I apologize to all mothers out there who have to deal with dieting daughters!!!! (I think my mom may be on here...)

amother

Wed, Jul 21 2010, 7:39 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I don't think the fact that she ate some muffins means she necessarily has a problematic relationship with food (to those posters who suggested it).

The fact that they have to hide the sweets and also that she was so enraged and blew up with her mother when she over did it with the cupcakes worries me. It sounds like this isn't the first time she has become extremely upset from eating something high in calories. I could be wrong. OP, am I? I'd love to be.

Yocheved84

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 12:36 pm

amother wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

I don't think the fact that she ate some muffins means she necessarily has a problematic relationship with food (to those posters who suggested it).

I think it's clear that to her daughter, her weight is a very upsetting issue. It's sad when food intake can negatively alter people's moods Sad

OP, I wish your daughter the best in her weight loss journey.