Holding 4th grade girl back

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 1:54 am

We’re moving to a different city, new school for my kids with a stronger emphasis on limmudei kodesh then the kids school and our community before. My rising 4th grade girl will be 10 years old in the fall so she’s on the older side of her class anyway. I’m thinking of holding her back when she switches schools in the fall for a few reasons.
1) to get her used to the new school that has heavy emphasis on LK
2) to catch up to the curriculum that’s different
3) maybe to boost her confidence?

Physically she’s the smallest in her grade currently. But now that I’m contemplating holding her back, I’m realizing the implications. It means her Bas Mitzvah will be at the beginning of 5th grade, close to a year or more before any of her future classmates.

Any feedback or constructive ideas are much appreciated.

Thank you!

amother

Goldenrod ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:11 am

amother OP wrote:

I would not hold back a child who is already in grade school. It is demeaning and sends a vote of no confidence.

However, she may see things differently. Have you discussed it with her?

If she struggles with additional LK, you can always get a tutor. She will likely not be happy to be the only one in her class wearing a bra or getting her period, or being the oldest by over a year.

My mother did this and my sister - now a mother herself - very much still resents it.

If you were asking about a kindergartener I would say ok, go for it. But to hold back a child in grade school you've got to have a very very solid, good, reason why the child needs to repeat a grade. And what you wrote isn't it - what you wrote is why she might need a tutor.

amother

Azalea

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:13 am

amother Goldenrod wrote:

I’m a teacher in this grade range and I agree with the above.
Get a good tutor for as long as necessary. As long as she’s a mainstream learner, she should be able to catch up with the proper motivation and supports.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:14 am

amother Goldenrod wrote:

Thank you for your response. I forgot to add that she doesn’t have such great confidence. She has been somewhat withdrawn in the last few years. Not sure if this changes your perspective

amother

↑ Goldenrod ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:15 am

amother Azalea wrote:

I’m a teacher in this grade range and I agree with the above.
Get a good tutor for as long as necessary. As long as she’s a mainstream learner,she should be able to catch up with the proper motivation and supports.

And if she's not, she needs a special class or in-class help, not to repeat a grade. Smile

(Oh I am also a teacher, forgot to mention.)

amother

↑ Goldenrod

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:16 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank you for your response. I forgot to add that she doesn’t have such great confidence. She has been somewhat withdrawn in the last few years. Not sure if this changes your perspective

Nope, aderaba, it's a reason to keep her in the same grade.
Holding her back is only going to underline that she "failed" and can't keep up with her classmates.

However perhaps there is a different school that would better cater to her needs?

Also what is the root of her being withdrawn and lacking confidence?

amother

Olive ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 3:08 am

Do not hold her back it would Be the biggest mistake.

I had the same thing we moved and the new school I was going to was much more academic and they wanted to leave me behind a year and my mother fought them. She said I'm a smart girl and a tutor can get me up to par. It was the lack of teaching and bh the school listened to my mother and I picked it up so fast the school was shocked how fast it was.

They actually agreed after the fact that my mother was right.

Leaving her behind will destroy her confidence.

No girl wants to be the first to develop or bigger than her peers.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:59 am

amother Olive wrote:

I hear you. This makes sense. However she is the shortest one in her class anyway. But you have a point and being short doesn’t mean she won’t get her period when she’s 12(I got it around 12-13) and technically she would be in 5th grade when she’s turning 12 if I held her back

amother

Maize ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 9:41 am

You said she has a fall birthday, so she technically was held back a year already.

Then you cant leave her behind again.
2 years older then everyone.

I did put my then 10 , turning 11 year old son back into 5th grade, (happens to be that the grade above him was full and there was no room for him) and since he switched to a new academic school and has a November bday, and was the youngest in his old class. I was able to put him back. He is now 6th to the oldest.

Also boys are very different then girls.

amother

Strawberry ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:06 am

Just adding my two cents. I had my son (November birthday) repeat a grade and go from youngest to oldest. It changed his life. He had mild dyslexia and now is a star reader (can read 1000 pages a day). He used to be bullied and now he’s taller so no more of that (actually he sometimes acts aggressively which is a complete reversal from before). He has lots of confidence.

I am very, very happy that I held him back. In his case it made all the difference. Yes his Bar Mitzvah will be the first. So what?

Hashem_Yaazor ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:13 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

How old was he when he repeated?

amother

↑ Strawberry

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:27 am

He was 5 or 6. It was repeat of the 5 year old program. The Morah in 3 year old flagged the issue to me but said I couldn’t repeat because 4 year old class is free (subsidized) in NY. The Morah in 4 year old class was a real chiller and didn’t see anything wrong ( even though he didn’t know Aleph Bais). The early childhood director flagged it again at the end of 4 year old. Then I sent to 5 year old. At that point the young new teacher flagged it and recommended leaving him back. Which is innovative for yeshivas. I went to speak to the principal and he was very confused - why would I be pushing for this. (In Manhattan where I work, people fight to leave their kids back and get an advantage. It’s called red shirting).

So anyway, I had him repeat 5 year old class. That year was Covid and we spent a lot of time together. My older kids were reading Harry Potter and he wanted to be able to do the same. We worked on reading. I also took him to the DOE for a full educational evaluation. They said he is average. And from then on it’s been B”H fine.

On the first day of the repeat, at the orientation, I stayed with him. The kids that used to be in his grade came to the door and pointed and laughed and said “why are you in this class again?” They were already in grade. I said - it’s a calendar issue, November baby. That was the end of the story. Then I took my son to the candy store, bought him Mike and Ike’s, and sat with his Aleph Bina with a candy on each word that he could eat if he read it correctly. He was in heaven.

Lately his friends have been commenting that they wish they had been left back, because they are September through December as well and it’s not fair that I have him this advantage. (He’s going into 5th now and is taller and does his studies slightly better than the other boys. He was always good at math, and coupled with the extra reading practice, gives an advantage in the common core curriculum).

amother

↑ Vermilion

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:28 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

This is normal and not the same. November birthdays can go to either grade.

mha3484 ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:46 am

I would not do it. I have a girl with an April birthday going into K and the preschool was floating the idea of doing nursery (4 year olds) again and I said no way. Repeating does very little to help the underlying issue its just a way to make the school kick the can down the road.

My son had a classmate with the same scenario as you and they did repeat him and I don't think it worked out well. I feel like people know me here so I am not saying more but if you PM I can tell you about it.

amother

Denim

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:57 am

In case you end up in a situation where you have to hold your dd back (I.e. the school insists because of the level she is at), I wanted to give some Chizzuk that for some girls it can work out fine.
Granted we held my dd back in kindergarten, which is an entirely different situation (but for similar reason - changing to a school where standards were very different), but we also moved to a different school when she was close to your dd’s age (so she was suddenly older at a new school) and she did completely fine with that too.
She is born at the end of the school year, but she had her Bas Mitzvah in grade 5. All the girls were so excited to have the first Bas Mitzvah in their class and it was not treated any differently than the other girls the following year.
She is very confident and happy. It is impossible to know for sure, as she was always held back, but I feel she is more confident being one grade back as it just seems to be the right level for her (she was a late bloomer, a bit late to mature, so always on par with the kids in her grade). Also, she never felt badly about being held back when we explained why when she was older.
I am in no way minimising the effect of holding a child back when they are older or the fact that your dd is born at the beginning of the school year, not the end, as I think these are very important factors to consider. Just providing a perspective that for some kids different things work, and if you are very careful to explain to her in a way that makes it clear it is not about her, but just the different standards of the new school, it is possible she would be okay with it. Of course you know her best and I would also seek out real life guidance from people who know her.

amother

Cyan

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:41 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

I would not compare a boy to a girl in this scenario. It is an advantage for a boy to be bigger than his peers (better in sports etc.). In contrast, it is a disadvantage for a girl to be more physically mature than her peers and research has shown that this can affect her emotionally long-term. This is something I wish all parents should keep in mind when considering to have their daughters be the oldest in their class- especially if they are on the taller side or likely to hit puberty early.