In vs out of house

Seraph ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 5:29 am

Is it hypocritical to not allow some things in the house, but to allow them while on vacation or at someone else's house?

Examples I can think of:
Cholov yisroel only in the house, but not while at bubby's.
Internet not allowed in the home, but will use at the library, a netcafe, a freinds house, or at work.
No TV/Movies in the house, but will watch at a hotel.

Do you think thats hypocritical?
I think its not.
For cholov yisroel and things like that, it can be connected to not wanting to impose your chumros on other people.
For the second two... Because you may not want the type of environment in your home for internet/movies, but not that you think they're sooo assur. And because you don't want people getting into trouble with it in your home, or you dont want it becoming an obsession, so you don't bring it into your home. But not because you think its evil.

Someone called me a hypocrite bec of something similar. I think that people that don't do it, don't understand it, and hence think its hypocritical. But I think lots of people do understand the logic and may do it.

PS. the person who commented it was hypocritical brings these stuff into their house and sees nothing wrong with it, but thought the fact that I dont bring them into the house but didnt have a big issue with it out of the home was the issue, not the thing in and of itself.

BeershevaBubby ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 5:51 am

Of course it's hypocritical. Your Neshama is just as holy and pure outside the home as it is inside the home.

Instead of saying 'Chalav Yisroel' why not just use the word kosher? If you keep a certain standard of Kashrut in the home, is it ok to lower your standards outside the home? Of course not.

It always bothered me whenever my Litvish cousins visited my grandmother or the rare occasions they visited my childhood home, they sat slack-jawed in front of the TV, engrossed with whatever was on, yet didn't have one in their own home.

My paternal grandparents didn't keep a kosher home by Orthodox standards. It didn't prevent us from visiting every Sunday afternoon but what it meant was all we ate was fresh fruit at their house and then went to Kosher Delight for dinner after.

↑ Seraph ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 6:04 am

YESHASettler wrote:

Instead of saying 'Chalav Yisroel' why not just use the word kosher? If you keep a certain standard of Kashrut in the home, is it ok to lower your standards outside the home? Of course not.

Actually, not so clear cut.
I was told straight out by my rav that even though at home I should only buy mehadrin, its COMPLETELY fine to eat non mehadrin at my family members houses, because in this case, the chumra of mehadrin does not supercede the halacha of shalom and not embarassing my family members and kibud av v'eim.

So yes, I do lower my standards of kashrus out of the house, and do not veiw it as hypocritical in the slightest bit, as that is what my rav paskened for me.

shalhevet

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 6:23 am

We also eat certain hechsherim (chug chatam sofer, agudas Yisroel) outside that we don't use at home. The reason is that we hold that they are okay bdieved, but are on a much lower standard than others. Quite honestly, our MO relatives think bedatz is bedatz is bedatz and make a real effort to buy it for us, and it's not shayach to start saying we only eat this badatz and that one. OTOH, we wouldn't eat plain rabbanut anywhere, unless we'd checked out the specific product.

Rabbonim often tell people to hold a slightly lower standard of kashrut outside the home (at relatives, not for restaurants) because other mitzvos come into play - such as kibbud av v'eim, not embarrassing others etc.

The other examples you gave - yes, I think it's hypocritical and just as assur outside.

catonmylap ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 6:28 am

YESHASettler wrote:

My paternal grandparents didn't keep a kosher home by Orthodox standards. It didn't prevent us from visiting every Sunday afternoon but what it meant was all we ate was fresh fruit at their house and then went to Kosher Delight for dinner after.

I don't think mine did either (though there isn't anything specific I can point to that I remember being wrong), but we always ate in their home. We also ate at a non-frum Aunt & Uncle's home (and I did see things wrong, and I would not eat in their home today).

I think it's very important to be more lenient so you can eat at relatives' homes. When it's your own family, you can decide what is "over the line" for you.

We do not ask about what other people do in their homes. I know that many of our friends use heter mechira produce, and we try to avoid it in our home, but we eat what others serve us.

Raisin

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 6:33 am

I don't think iit is hypocritical to not have the internet at home, yet use it elsewhere. There are very good reasons for that - you may not want it to take over your/dhs/kids life, but you still need to use it on occasion.

as for chalav yisrael - most ppl I know wouldn't eat that outside the house. it is more than a chumra. you could always ask your parents or whoever to cook you pareve or meat foods instead of milchigs. (if they have a hard time with that,ask your rav) it is a different story with the mehadrin vs. not mehadrin hechsherim.

↑ Seraph ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 6:41 am

well I, for example, think that cholov yisroel is definitely preferable to non cholov yisroel, but I know there is a heter for chalav akum. I dont hold like lubavitch that non cholov yisroel is treife mamash.
Therefore, when I'm in a place that I can just as easily get cholov yisroel or cholov akum- suchas ny or israel, I buy the cy. why not? its definitely preferable.

Where I grew up there is only one store that u can get cy in, they dont have much selection, it generally is half spoiled, and its overpriced and I probably wouldnt be keeping cholov yisroel at all nowadays if I still lived there.
Where my father lives, it is impossible to get cholov yisroel. I would not be keeping CY there.

And if I accidentally buy something non cholov yisroel, I'll eat it. better not be over the avera of bal tashchis than keep the chumra of cholov yisroel.

Which is why at other peoples house I will eat it.

shabbatiscoming ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 8:00 am

breslov wrote:

from your examples, I will say that the one that I think is hypocritical is the movie/tv watching out of the house. I know ppl who do it and I do not understand. I know a family that when they visit grama and grampa the kids are glued to the tv but at home, they dont wantch tv or go to the movies.
so why should it be different just because you are not in your own home? you should have the same standards in and out of your home having to do with your neshama and that is what it is all about.

I do think that if it has to do with keeping shalom between family members then one should be willing to change their chumra on hechsherim.

shabri

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 3:51 pm

Actually, I totally understand the TV/movie example. Even though I grew up with a TV, when I was dating it was very important to me not to have a tv in my house. I saw how addicting it was and how much time it took away from family and other things to do. On the other hand,I was and am fine with going to a kosher movie every now and then or watching some kosher tv (harder) at my parents. In that case its 2 hours and then its over. Its not something taking over our lives and our home.

One thing I never understood was how some ppl would have certain standards of tznious in their home and in their cities but when they went away on vacation all of a sudden then were on the beach and swimming.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 4:22 pm

shabri wrote:

One thing I never understood was how some ppl would have certain standards of tznious in their home and in their cities but when they went away on vacation all of a sudden then were on the beach and swimming.

same. Especially very tzniusdik people, the type that really covers the elbows and knees and collar bones, maybe even they wear tights, and in vacation... argh!

montrealmommy

Mon, Apr 28 2008, 5:10 pm

Ruchel - your last comment really made me laugh! I just had this conversation with dh and two bachurim who spent last days Pesach with us - they called it city tznius and country tznius (where we live it refers to the bungalos in the country where peple go in the summer) -

I completely agree!!!

As for CY, I would ask your LOR and then be confident in doing what you were guided to do. When we used to visit my parents we ate non CY so as not to impose on them, but now that we live in the same city and keep cy (as best we can) at home, we were advised to keep CY at my parent's home too, which they accomodate.

As for TV adn movies - I think saying one thing and doing another IS hypocritical, but it depends on what you say. If you and dh (and dc's) hold that while it's preferable to avoid, and thuis not in the house, as a speacial treat it's ok, then when in a hotel, it is a special treat. If you say it's assur and tumadik and not allowed point blank, then it is quite hypocritical to say it's ok in a hotel.

As for internet, why do you use it at a net cafe or the library, if it's b/c you want to avoid having it in the home for "x" reasons, then I don't think it's hypocritical b/c you are not saying internet is bad you are saying you don't what that in your home. If you are sneaking out to use it then irregardless of the rasons for not having it at home, then you ar creating a double standard and a taboo which will have great ramifications on dc's and will most defenitely be viewed as hypocritical.

As for the porson who made the hypocritical statement, maybe they don't understand why you dont want x,y,z in the home and as such made that comment. It still isn't right, or any of their business, but maybe it was just a comment of ignorance not spite!

louche

Tue, Apr 29 2008, 9:21 pm

YESHASettler wrote:

It always bothered me whenever my Litvish cousins visited my grandmother

and what does your cousins being Litvish have to do with anything? If you had said simply "when my cousins" or better yet "when certain people visited...' your point would have been made just as clearly without insulting any portion of klal yisroel.

↑ shabbatiscoming

Wed, Apr 30 2008, 12:08 am

Quote:

As for TV adn movies - I think saying one thing and doing another IS hypocritical, but it depends on what you say. If you and dh (and dc's) hold that while it's preferable to avoid, and thuis not in the house, as a speacial treat it's ok, then when in a hotel, it is a special treat. If you say it's assur and tumadik and not allowed point blank, then it is quite hypocritical to say it's ok in a hotel.

this answer I agree with, it just made me think of a family that I know where the parents have no tv in the home and they assur movies for their kids, BUT they will watch videos on their computer with earphones in their own home so that the children will not know that they are watching something. anyone else think that this is VERY hypocritical? they are preaching one way b ut doing another???????????

mimivan ↓

Wed, Apr 30 2008, 12:25 am

I'm not really into the in versus out of the home idea...but I do find some examples of things we do...

We are usually pretty machmir on the food we eat, but sometimes we will eat a certain kind of dair b'dieved if we know it is chalav Yisroed (specific hecksher I am thinking of) if we are somewhere else.

My son goes to a chareidi gan which some of the activities run contrary to our minhagim...I asked a mashpia about this and since he needs special care, we have to tolerate this...also he eats good hecksherim we don't eat at home...

I think a parent does have a perogative in certain things. I need the internet for my work, and of course I am on here and other frum or neutral (health etc..) sites, and I don't think I will want my kids to use the net, if at all, until they are much older. I don't think this is hypocritical now...parents doing fun stuff like watching movies etc...when they don't allow their kids...this is something different.

I try not to listen to music I would not let my kids listen too. I can be lenient about listening to songs based on non-Jewish styles of music (I.e. chassidic bluegrass, for example) but for my kids, I would keep this to a minimum...
And maybe for myself it should be just an occasional treat...of course during sefirah, it is a non-issue

Last edited by mimivan on Wed, Apr 30 2008, 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ BeershevaBubby

Wed, Apr 30 2008, 12:25 am

louche wrote:

YESHASettler wrote:

It always bothered me whenever my Litvish cousins visited my grandmother

Because they kept/keep to a certain community standard. And their community is Litvak.

As opposed to my community standard which is Dati Leumi/MO... or my parents who are MO.... or my other aunt who is Lubavitch....