What do you think? (shomer negiah)

amother

OP ↓

Yesterday at 9:51 pm

What do you think if you see a woman who keeps Shabbat and kashrut, keeps tznius clothes but doesn't cover her hair and is not shomer negiah?
Do you think it confuses people?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 10:00 pm

No judgment here, I am really curious of what people are thinking. Like if a secular person saw this, would they be uncomfortable shaking hands with a person who they are expecting to be shomer negiah? Is it confusing or just normal as each person is growing in mitzvot at a different rate?

amother

Antiquewhite

Yesterday at 10:04 pm

It would be confusing for an outsider. I guess that's where the concept of maris ayin comes in.

However, that's a general statement. It's not my place to judge someone specific.

imaima ↓

Yesterday at 10:21 pm

amother OP wrote:

A secular person is not uncomfortable to shake hands with anyone. Why would they be so aware that the other side should be shomer negiah if shaking hands is otherwise a normal practice?

↑ imaima ↓

Yesterday at 10:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

Do you mean the case when a secular person boxes everyone so if you take on one thing (shabbat) they automatically assume that you should go 100% otherwise you are fake?

DrMom

Yesterday at 10:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

What do you think if you see a woman who keeps Shabbat and kashrut, keeps tznius clothes but doesn't cover her hair and is not shomer negiah?
Do you think it confuses people?

I might think she is not married or has a very realistic sheitel or fall. I might think she isn't shomer negiah because she shakes hands in business settings or something like that.

I probably wouldn't dwell on it much.

If I were secular, I would dwell on it even less.

shabbatiscoming ↓

Today at 12:00 am

amother OP wrote:

What do you think if you see a woman who keeps Shabbat and kashrut, keeps tznius clothes but doesn't cover her hair and is not shomer negiah?
Do you think it confuses people?

I wouldnt think anything. Everyone is on their own journey.
Are you the woman in question or the one wondering?

amother

Electricblue

Today at 12:04 am

amother OP wrote:

What do you think if you see a woman who keeps Shabbat and kashrut, keeps tznius clothes but doesn't cover her hair and is not shomer negiah?
Do you think it confuses people?

If she's married, doesn't cover hair, and by not Shomeret Negia, I ASSUME you mean innocent stuff like handshakes, then I'd assume that the woman is active in the secular workplace and that it is very important for her job that she appear to be "normal" to secular people. There ARE orthodox rabanim who allow not covering hair, and I think even some allow touch lo baderech chiba.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Today at 12:08 am

amother OP wrote:

Secular people dont have shomer negiah on their radar. Trust me.

↑ shabbatiscoming

Today at 12:09 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

It would be confusing for an outsider. I guess that's where the concept of maris ayin comes in.

However, that's a general statement. It's not my place to judge someone specific.

How would it be confusing for an outsider? They hace no concept of shomer negiah.

amother

Coffee

Today at 2:01 am

Why would it be confusing?? Plenty if normal frum (yes, you can be frum and shake hands and not cover your hair) people fit into this category. What's confusing about keeping shabbos and kosher?

amother

Lightcyan ↓

Today at 2:19 am

amother OP wrote:

Secular people are not thinking about the nuances of religious Jewish lifestyles. They often can't tell anyway whether a woman's hair is a wig or her own, and honestly they don't care. They don't even always know that hair covering is a thing for frum women.
They aren't thinking or analyzing about whether or not someone is shomer negiah-- in the professional workplace, it is rare to have hugging or physical touch other than a handshake at most (and there are rabbanim who allow handshakes in the workplace) so it wouldn't specifically stand out to them.
I've worked in secular workplaces and trust me, so much just isn't on their radar even if it looms very large to us.

Ruchel ↓

Today at 2:26 am

amother Electricblue wrote:

Yes. Especially with a heter and a strong reason

amother

Cherry

Today at 2:28 am

amother OP wrote:

What do you think if you see a woman who keeps Shabbat and kashrut, keeps tznius clothes but doesn't cover her hair and is not shomer negiah?
Do you think it confuses people?

Uh, I wouldnt think youre yeshivish. But I know plenty of "modern" people like that.

Especially places like Teaneck/engelwood, 5towns, oot.

Typically theyre not 100% to Lakewood tznius norms (like the ones I know wear short sleeves and no stockings) but im sure could be.

Why?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 2:35 am

imaima wrote:

Do you mean the case when a secular person boxes everyone so if you take on one thing (shabbat) they automatically assume that you should go 100% otherwise you are fake?

Yes! This is what I was thinking! Like wold a secular person assume that person is fake religious?

amother

↑ Lightcyan ↓

Today at 2:44 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes! This is what I was thinking! Like wold a secular person assume that person is fake religious?

No, because they really don't know all the nuances and requirements of a frum lifestyle. Unless it's something like a person who previously had been very vocal about not joining in with eating food at events or restaurants, and then suddenly at the next event starts to fill.up a plate instead of unobtrusively eating chips or sticking to drinking soda, then they might wonder a bit. But honestly, they wouldn't care, they'd probably just think of it being like cheating on a diet.
(And half the time anyway, my coworkers would forget I couldn't eat at these things and I'd have to remind them I only eat kosher when they asked why I wasn't eating. And once someone said she was surprised I drank soda because she assumed caffeine was eschewed by very religious people-- probably she was mixing up Mormon rules with Jewish ones.)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 2:48 am

So this happens to be my friend. She dresses tznius, covers her hair only with a headband, she keeps kashrut and Shabbat and it's not that she's not shomer negiah, she is, but in the workplace or within a secular circle, she has a policy to not embarrass so if someone is going to shake hands or going for a mini hug she is okay with that.

So her coworker who is Jewish and somewhat aware forgot and gave her like a small hug, she said it looked like the other person felt awkward afterwards (even though of course she herself also felt awkward ) and said bye from a distance, so now she is questioning her policy of not saying anything when someone wants to shake hands or hug.

I didn't really know what to tell her, and now she is embarrassed because she is thinking that the coworker might be thinking she crossed a line for his sake by allowing it and it was not the intention at all, she was simply trying to not make a big deal out of it.

amother

Cinnamon

Today at 2:50 am

He really think that a religious person would ever noticed those things? I am quite religious and I had a religious doctor that shook my hand and I was just so shocked that I shook it but the next time I went in, I asked him not to. And I was so nervous about it. Sometimes you just do it out of reflex. And honestly, I can’t talk a lot of people cover their hair these days. we look extremely real and sometimes I question myself is wearing Hair color or not no religious person is going to judge any of these things.