I smacked my daughter. Hard. :( Update pg 19

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Today at 8:49 am

amother Pink wrote:

BB's had the same talking points for the past 6 years that I've been on here in regards to the potching. Nothing changes her mind, no matter how many times she is proven wrong. I didn't even bother jumping in here. I'd rather save my breath on other more important stuff.

I'm weighing in now cuz I see other getting blue in the face trying to argue. Just don't. You're accomplishing nothing and will be getting nowhere.

I've been responding to her for years as well. There's no point. Imagine me arguing with my mil, she'll insist the traffic light was green when I know it was red. There's no convincing some people.
Sometimes I get involved for the readers' sake.

amother

↑ Pink

Today at 8:51 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Choshech shivto sonei bino
,

I have no yet met any gadol or encountered any midrash that told us to go according to pshat.

But this is what I mean. 6 years ago we had a pretty similar conversation here we had the same arguments, only there I was bold enough not to argue anonymously. Nothing changed! So why am I even bothering to engage?

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 8:52 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

No, I never said that.

Also, that is not what communism is.

Yes you said parents who are hitting their kids are not acting on behalf of the state.

So you recognize that the state has authority over the children but not parents.

And while state control over children and abolition of parental rights is not the definition of communism

That is what every communist government does

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 8:52 am

amother Pink wrote:

For everyone else. For all the people who are reading this. She's the questioning voice in their head and I'm responding to it.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 8:57 am

#BestBubby wrote:

To give mussar.

Exactly

חושך שבטו שונא בנו ואוהבו שחרו מוסר

One who withholds the rod hates his son, but the one who loves his child rebukes him early.

What a beautiful model for parenting! Ignoring your child's misbehavior out of apathy is a lack of love. The child's behavior will get worse and worse to the point that he'll deserve punishment, but the apathetic parent doesn't care. Eventually the parent might lash out at the child verbally or physically, but at that point it's too little and too late to improve the kids behavior.

What does a loving parent do? Intervene early. Gently and constantly parent their child so the child learns to behave without needing to be beaten. The loving parent doesn't have to resort to the rod because she can use other methods. Gentler "rebuke" is sufficient when used proactively. Correcting the behavior, appropriate consequences, and figuring up better ways to do things for her and her child.

↑ chanatron1000 ↓

Today at 8:59 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Yes you said parents who are hitting their kids are not acting on behalf of the state.

So you recognize that the state has authority over the children but not parents.

No, I said they're not acting on the behalf of the state because you compared it to a judge, who is acting on behalf of the state.

And neither the state nor the parent has the "authority" to abuse a child.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 9:01 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

It's Christians who use the Hudibras version...

See my explanation above. It's a beautiful verse and explained beautifully by the Rabbis, even back in the day where corporal punishment was standard.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 9:03 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

I agree with proactive teaching.

But for some children it is not enough and they will hit their parents even when told it's not allowed repeatedly.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 9:04 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

But the states do give that authority to parents.

And I do not support abuse.

amother

↑ Teal

Today at 9:05 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I agree with proactive teaching.

But for some children it is not enough and they will hit their parents even when told it's not allowed repeatedly.

You seem to think that all children hit their parents..... and on a regular basis.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 9:05 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I agree with proactive teaching.

But for some children it is not enough and they will hit their parents even when told it's not allowed repeatedly.

Telling is not enough. Telling children not to do something is not called parenting. At best. It's called communicating.

There are other effective ways of parenting that don't involve inflicting pain. I know that's hard for you to imagine to be true. But it is.

For easy children, communicating may be enough. For difficult children, it definitely isn't. But there are methods that work for difficult children that don't involve inflicting pain on them. And they work. I know because I use them. They don't work to make difficult children into easy children. They don't work to make children suddenly mature faster. But they work to help the home function and children grow into healthy happy adults.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 9:08 am

amother Teal wrote:

You seem to think that all children hit their parents..... and on a regular basis.

I have posted over and over some children.

Never said on a regular basis.

If you have to resort to making things up you have a weak argument.

↑ chanatron1000

Today at 9:11 am

#BestBubby wrote:

But the states do give that authority to parents.

And I do not support abuse.

You think states give the authority to the parents? Which means the authority derives from the state? Communist! /s

Not forbidding something isn't the same as giving the authority.

And nobody says they support abuse.

↑ #BestBubby

Today at 9:15 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

I posted it doesn't have to be a potch

Can you share your method for difficult children?

amother

↑ Aquamarine ↓

Today at 9:19 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

This is beautiful and so on point. Thank you for sharing.
I'm happy there are many voices for gentle and consistent parenting.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 9:45 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I posted it doesn't have to be a potch

Can you share your method for difficult children?

I've shared many specific ideas over this thread in detail. So those I'm not going to repeat here. You're welcome to read over my previous posts for ideas.

It comes down to the exact Pasuk you brought down. Being proactive.

Asking yourself when things are calm, What does my child need to thrive? What does my child need to learn? How can I teach it to them?

Most of the wisdom you need is within you as the parent. Otherwise, you can speak to people for advice. You can crowdsource right here on imamother. You could read books for ideas. And you can try things and if they don't work, you'll try something else next time.

Potching is a single blunt tool. It gives good immediate results so people resort to it frequently. But there are dozens of other things to try. Not one magic solution to replace potching, but a flexible attitude towards finding better ways.

And here's the thing. Potching doesn't work to help difficult, dysregulated children grow up into healthy and kind adults. It simply doesn't work. You can keep using it for the immediate short-term effects. Or you can look for other methods that may work better towards your ultimate goal.

↑ sequoia

Today at 9:53 am

What I never understood is, what’s the point of forcing your child to behave when they’re small, only for them to cut you off as soon as they can? Does anyone really look at people whose adult children have gone no contact and think, “yes, that’s what I want.”