I smacked my daughter. Hard. :( Update pg 19

amother

↑ Aubergine ↓

Today at 10:18 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

I've never spoke to any mechanech or rav who has spoken out against a normal potch. There is none that would say you are never allowed to hit your child. You do not have to hit your child. You MUST not hit your children. But no one will say you NEVER may.

I'm sure there is someone out there, but that does not mean it is a mainstream opinion in anyway or by any stretch.

People are have this "never" approach to anything in life and usually not very easy individuals to deal with. They are generally tense and uptight and that alone is worse than an occasional smack, if you choose that.

Most mainstream mechanchim speak out against potching. For years already.
It’s not considered an acceptable form of chinuch for a long time already.

amother

↑ Jetblack ↓

Today at 10:20 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

Most mainstream mechanchim speak out against potching. For years already.
It’s not considered an acceptable form of chinuch for a long time already.

Again, none of that means that they said someone may never hit their child. No mainstream anything has every said that. I'm sure people have, but they are not mainstream. Mainstream balanced individuals don't use words like that because it's extreme. Unfortunately, the public listening to them may not have the same nuance.

NEVER applies to things like murder, rape, illicit drugs, and other things. Not giving your child a potch 1 or 3 or 10 times in their childhood.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 10:22 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

BestBubby, nobody is trying to hurt you. If any of my posts caused you to feel hurt, I’m very sorry.

I’m concerned that kids will get hurt from what you’re advising and we are all trying to stop that.

Our goal is that imamother in 20 years from now hopefully won’t have anymore posts written by kids who we’re potched and hurt from it.

Thank you.

And I am concerned that children are getting hurt due to lack of discipline.

From doing dangerous things, to committing serious aveiros, to developing
Terrible middos that leads to divorce,
Inability to hold down a job, etc.

The Torah says if one withholds the rod he hates his son - because he is destroying his child's future.

So we are both concerned about harming children but disagree on what method works.

amother

↑ Aubergine ↓

Today at 10:23 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

Again, none of that means that they said someone may never hit their child. No mainstream anything has ever said that. I'm sure people have, but they are not mainstream. Mainstream balanced individuals don't use words like that because it's extreme. Unfortunately, the public listening to them may not have the same nuance.

Many, many gedolim have spoken out against potching as a form of chinuch. No mechanech will be pro potching on record nowadays. Maybe privately they would say it, but they would be embarrassed to say it publicly as it’s not acceptable anymore.

amother

↑ Aubergine ↓

Today at 10:24 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

Never should apply to potching as well if you understand the magnitude of the damage it causes.

amother

↑ Aubergine ↓

Today at 10:26 am

#BestBubby wrote:

I hear your concern. You do care about tomorrow’s children. Raising an emotionally healthy adult is a complex process. You should have much nachas from your grandchildren.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 10:27 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline.”
— Haim Ginott, Child Psychologist and Psychotherapist

Perfect example of pretending children and adults are equals,

That parents have no rights.

That context doesn't matter.

If a person kills an innocent, that's murder.

If a judge executed a murderer that justice

To Woke Ginot executing a murderer is also murder.
(But killing a healthy third trimester unborn is a Right)
(Daniel Penny accidently killing while defending others is also a murderer)

And Israel fighting in self defense is genocide.

That's who you people are following.

Last edited by #BestBubby on Fri, Jan 10 2025, 10:37 am; edited 3 times in total

amother

DarkCyan

Today at 10:33 am

Someone who feels the urge to smack their child hard because they are lifting their skirt or pinching them... OP you need therapy. You said you went... go again.

You demand an apology from your child.. after what you did?
She shouldn't lift your skirt and she shouldn't pinch OBVIOUSLY. You don't teach that with violence. You just showed her violence is the answer. Even if you feel guilty.
And you shouldn't be demanding apologies. You should repair the relationship first. You caused a lot of emotional damage, because in her eyes you can't be trusted. You said you were hit a lot as a kid. So you know what I am talking about. Do the work. She will behave better once YOU DO. not the other way around

amother

↑ Teal ↓

Today at 10:54 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Not hitting children, does NOT mean that they're not being disciplined!
HITTING IS NOT THE ONLY FORM OF DISCIPLINE!
And you're conveniently forgetting the fact that the torah forbids hitting a child out of anger & frustration, and when a parent hits it's generally out of anger/frustration/trigger. That is a sin.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 11:04 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Haim Ginott isn't woke. He died well before the woke movement even started. He's a brilliant Jewish educator and therapist.

Not everyone you disagree with is in the same boat.

↑ chanatron1000 ↓

Today at 11:07 am

#BestBubby wrote:

So in your view, a child is presumed to be the equivalent of a murderer or a terrorist, and an adult is always in the right?

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 11:08 am

amother Hyssop wrote:

This sounds very healthy. I think that it’s important to say that each parent has a different personality and gives off different vibes. Some parents may naturally have more of an authority and give that off to their kids without even trying. From what I’ve observed Those are the parents that generally tend to think more in the lines of this is what I expect from my child and there’s no two ways about it.

As opposed to someone like me who has much less “natural control”. That is it
Something I cant change and I don’t want my whole parenting to be about a power struggle and me getting upset that kids are not listening. I therefore learn to lower my expectations when I deem it necessary.

You asked upthread about what id do when my child gets older and I can’t physically hold him. I don’t have all the answers . All I know is that it will not help this child if I punish him every time he’s out of control. So I let things slide. It happens to be he doesn’t hit anymore .he’s also not am agressive child in general . He did that when he was 4,5. Now he is 6 and when he is out of sorts what he does is push down the garbage can or whatever is on the counters. He doesn’t do this intention, he doesn’t want to be doing it. This mess actually triggers me much more than the hitting which didn’t really hurt coming from a small child. But what I see is that he moves on to something else which makes me feel that he’ll outgrow this behavior too. I don’t think he’ll ever outgrow being a person who struggles with emotional regulation. That will always be a part of him. But my goal is to help my beloved, delicious, sweet child work though this. And that is by working on myself to stay calm and present for him as best as I can.

Sometimes children like this learn to behave better with physical punishment. Others it makes their behavior and emotional regulation far worse. You know your child best and don't let anyone change that.

The goal is to help your child grow out of being a person who struggles with emotion regulation. Yes, it is possible. Even if he never becomes easy going, he can be someone who knows how to handle his big feelings. Keep learning skills and teaching them to him. Keep bringing him back to a regulated place so he feels it deep inside. It might be helpful working with a therapist who can coach you on this, or one who works with both of you on skills. And keep providing him with a loving home that accepts him for who he is, with all of his challenges, as good enough and not a bad boy for struggling.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 11:09 am

The comparison of how children behave at home and school is not meaningful.

As a teacher, there are many children in my class who behave in school but not at home. But the ones who have really strict homes, they're the ones who misbehave in school! A child needs somewhere where he can be himself and not live under constant fear. Whichever environment has less pressure, that's where he'll let himself be. It's not possible to be on 24 hours a day. Wherever the safest place is for him to let loose, that's where he will.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 11:09 am

amother Teal wrote:

There are plenty of posts here that the child's actions are age appropriate (😲),

That the child should not get any discipline at all,

That OP is at fault for not dropping her work and instantly obeying her child

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Today at 11:13 am

Giraffe wrote:

Crying because I knew all along that children are just worthless garbage. They can be taken out to the back of the shed and shot like a dog if they hit a parent.

Nobody is worthless garbage. Not even a shameless murderer who gets the death penalty is treated that way by Torah law.

It might be fascinating to learn parts of Sanhedrin. The ones that talk about the basic human respect even a murderer on death row receives. He doesn't lose his divine image. The Torah explicitly forbids leaving his body in disgrace overnight. No matter how much evil he committed, he's still a human being.