I smacked my daughter. Hard. :( Update pg 19

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Yesterday at 9:08 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

You teach. The same way you teach children not to turn the lights on on Shabbos. To say please and thank you. To read. None of these require hitting.

On pg. 12 I listed many links to parents who said their child hit them

And every one of those parents don't potch.

I never read a thread where a parent who potched was hit by her child. Never.

There are easy children who don't need punishment

And there are difficult children who do need punishment.

Just telling difficult children "you are not allowed to hit" obviously doesn't work

amother

↑ Aquamarine ↓

Yesterday at 9:12 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Do you think a judge who puts a criminal in jail in a kidnapper?

Is a judge who fines a speeder a robber?

You don't know the difference between a wrongdoer and authority.

You people are all excusing the child who repeatedly pinched her mother and pulled up her skirt!

While the mother was justified the child needed a big punishment for such outrageous misbehavior

No to all of the above.

A child's job is to learn. The are born and start learning new skills right away. They learn the most the first 2 years and then upto age 7 is where the foundations are laid. Being that they learn all day they are bound to make mistakes. The job of parents is to teach them the correct way in a calm safe way so the message actually penetrates.
The human nervous system has been studies. There are 2 modes of operation. Danger and safety. When the body senses danger the logical (conscious) part of the brain shuts down and the instinct (subconscious) brain takes over. The only goal of the subconscious brain is to survive. It goes into fight/flight/freeze/fawn to save themselves from this situation. The conscious brain is shut and nothing can get stored then. When the body feels safe the conscious brain is open and it continues to learn.
If a child is being hit for the mistakes they make. They simply can't learn to do better. It is not the way humans were created. On top of that, if the child doesn't understand when and why they are getting hit. They're system stays on alert and it never switches back to safety mode. A childhood like this can be the root cause of many mental health problems.

Back to the robbers and the speeders.
Adults are developed enough to be held accountable. When a robber robs he is making a conscious choice. Then a driver speeds he is making a conscious choice. By living in a country with law and order he knows he may get caught and punished for the unlawful things he did.
Very very different from young children.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Yesterday at 9:15 pm

amother Aquamarine wrote:

This was not a mistake.

A child of 7 knows it is wrong to hit a parent ( or anyone) or pull up someone's skirt!!!

But children who are never adequately punished will do it anyway knowing there are no consequences.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Yesterday at 9:17 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

For the first time I agree with your entire post. Some children need punishment, but it doesn't have to be physical punishment. In addition, difficult children need a lot more than punishment. They need a healthy environment that allows them to succeed. They need extra love and nurturing to help them develop self-compassion, to learn about themselves, and to develop better behavior.

When parents stop hitting but don't replace it with effective parenting strategies, their children can grow up wild. That's not the goal either.

What does it mean to teach? Clearly not just to state the fact once. Then the school day would be about 20 minutes long or kids will be done school in 2 years. You have to explain to them. You have to demonstrate. You have to make it clear. You have to repeat yourself. You have to help them internalize it. If the child's having difficulty grasping the lesson, then you need to find other ways to explain that to them. You need to give them many opportunities to practice the new skills. To make mistakes , then be corrected, then practice doing again the right way this time. And most of all, you repeat yourself. Teaching is endless repeating yourself.

Teaching is also endless practice. Any teacher will tell you that most practice should consist of doing it right. Of course, if the child makes a mistake you correct it and then they keep doing it again till they get it right. And then they need to keep practicing doing it right. My goal is that in my house the children should have many opportunities to practice the right behavior, with as many corrections as needed to do that.

Do you believe in hitting children to teach them to read? Like if you showed them the letter Gimel and they don't remember it a few minutes later, do you think you should hit them to motivate them to remember? Or do you think you should keep teaching the lesson until they learn it?

I mean this in all seriousness. Hitting children for forgetting or not remembering fast enough was a widely used teaching method that is not used anymore. The new methods we have for teaching kids to read are far more effective as well as far more humane. Yes, you could be both. More effective and kinder.

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Yesterday at 9:17 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I agree.
But many of the parents who don't potch are against any punishment.
There are many posters who said the child should not be punished
and it is the mother's fault for not dropping everything and obeying her child instantly.

When a child is acting off and crying and dysregulated, punishing makes it worse. You aren't going to solve the problem with a punishment when the child already is feeling punished. You are only going to make things worse.
There needs to be a good solid logical reason for punishing and I don't see it in this scenario.
When both parent and child are feeling awful after a situation, something needs to be different. Not more crying, hitting, negative feelings. The parent needs to de-escalate the situation, not escalate it with more of the same.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Yesterday at 9:20 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

I think when reading careful you can see that it's not the mother who should be obeying the child. It's the mother who should be realizing what is about to happen and take action. The mother on her own should decide that when her child comes home from school, she will give her child 5 minutes of attention. Rav Matisyahu was cool as saying that that is one of my mother's most important jobs, to be kind and compassionate and loving towards her children when they walk in from school. This was an avoidable tantrum. Now not all tantrums are avoidable. But this one was. The mother made an age-appropriate mistake, which is understandable. The child also made an age-appropriate mistake. They both deserve to be corrected and shown a better way of doing things with kindness.

↑ giftedmom ↓

Yesterday at 9:25 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

No
Absolutely not
You didn’t just equate the mother making dinner with the child pinching and picking up her mother’s skirt.
What the heck is wrong with people.

amother

↑ Aquamarine ↓

Yesterday at 9:29 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Ok so you see children as monsters waiting to hurt the adults around them. I see them as beautiful human being who are learning and making mistakes.
I see I can't change your opinion. But I will still answer for those who might be confused.

Yes, a child of 7 knows its not correct. Which makes me as an adult unserstand that she has a reason for doing it. She doesn’t have yet all the skills adults have to help herself. Shes tired and hungry and probably frustrated about something. If she would be an adult she might have said. Mom I had such a hard day today and didn't eat since 12. And then being an adult she can cut an apple for herself and eat it.
A 7 yo cannot do this yet! Please let kids be kids and let's help them grow not stunt their growth.

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Yesterday at 9:32 pm

giftedmom wrote:

No
Absolutely not
You didn’t just equate the mother making dinner with the child pinching and picking up her mother’s skirt.
What the heck is wrong with people.

Of course I didn't equate the two. They're very different. The mother knew she was making a mistake from previous experiences and kept doing it. The child was completely dysregulated and no idea with she was doing. And then the mother got dysregulated and smacked her against her better judgment.

And I'm not here to judge either of them. Only to say that maybe there's a better way. Which is exactly what OP wanted. I'm not here to shame the mother any more than I would want to shame the child. There are better ways of teaching people lessons than through aggression, physical or verbal.

amother

↑ Aubergine ↓

Yesterday at 9:37 pm

amother Aquamarine wrote:

You explained this so well. Can you copy and paste to the erase the potch thread?

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Yesterday at 9:43 pm

amother Oldlace wrote:

Thank you for acknowledging that some children need punishment.

Many posters here do not agree and stated the child should not be punished at all.

No, I do not believe in punishing for mistakes or not learning fast enough.

I am a SEIT and have taught children with DS to read. I am very patient

But when a child who knows better does something really terrible there has to be adequate consequences that will deter.