Shiduch and weight

amother

↑ Maple ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:03 am

amother Crocus wrote:

And culturally there were times that massively obese women were all the rage because it showed that they were over rich because they could afford extra food.

Not "massively obese." The ideal was a woman with extra body fat, but not to a pathological extent.

And, like thinness, this ideal was about status, not attractiveness. To some extent, status confers attractiveness. Much like how people suddenly find someone more attractive when their parents have money... But still, normal, plain raw s-xual attraction is not to be conflated with finding someone to be a "catch," and men aren't inherently wired to be attracted to thin women.

Also, much more generally, attraction can't be predicted based on what people like on paper. There are plenty of people who find themselves very attracted to someone in real life when their traits are far from what they would have described as the ideal prior to meeting them. It's chemical.

amother

Steel

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:25 am

amother Begonia wrote:

This question bothers me since I was one of those girls. So when redting a shidduch for my bil I didn’t mention looks at all. After the date I said so, I heard she’s stunning. What did you think? (She really is a classically pretty girl regardless of her being a size 14 and under 5’) he responding that she’s beautiful and they got engaged after 8 dates. Had someone mentioned before that she’s heavy I don’t know if he would’ve dated her.

Can't this be said about any preference either the boy or girl have?

Example: Boy doesn't want a girl from OOT. He's talked into trying it and they get married and live happily ever after. See, you never know and should always try.

Example: Girl wants a boy that's extroverted and talkative but is pushed to giving a chance to the quietest guy in the yeshiva. The end up getting married and live happily ever after.

These stories happen. Do the prove that everyone should always try a first date with anyone since we never know?

amother

↑ Crocus ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:33 am

wrkngmomof2 wrote:

I was told by a Shadchan, “the only thing standing between your daughter and any boy she wants is 15 pounds”
My daughter is kah very beautiful both inside and out and a size 8!
I find it very off putting and am wondering if it’s the boys or their mothers? Would a mother speak to her son and explain that a woman’s body is constantly changing and there is no guarantee that the body she had when she was 20 will be the same at 25?
What about Rose Yeshivos? Are they explaining that the physical appearance is a very small part of marriage?
This attitude is not Torah oriented at all.

The Roshei Yeshivos are telling them like it is. They tell them not to be overly frum and ignore attraction because attraction is significant. Not the most important but significant. It doesn’t mean that her body won’t change over the next 20 years. But initiall physical attraction is very important and if it is absent it is very detrimental to the marriage.

amother

Aubergine

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:41 am

amother Crocus wrote:

And culturally there were times that massively obese women were all the rage because it showed that they were over rich because they could afford extra food.

The fact is that the overwhelming majority of boys today are attracted to thin. When the mother calls asking about the girls appearance she is not asking if the girl is biologically attractive. She is asking to find out if the girl is suitable for her son, the typical boy growing up in 2025. The answer should be honest.

I'm curious how many mothers have actually sat down with their sons and discussed what kind of girl they're attracted too. My guess is not too many. Are they just making assumptions based on current trends?

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:49 am

I think if the boy grew up in a household hearing the mom and sisters complain about there weight, or trying to lose 15lbs to look absolutely right in the bar mitzvah dress, then that’s what they precieve as pretty.
They hear it at home from very young.
Who says makeup is pretty?
Society, how we grow up.
If we would view it as a nose ring then makeup would be ugly.
Plus in ancient times (Greeks and Romans) women would spit out their food in order not to get fat. This is not something new
What’s new is very skinny is now concidered pretty

Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:52 am

amother Crocus wrote:

Makes sense. The fact is that not every boy and girl are made for each other. If the boy is a twig thin wisp of a guy it’s just not going to go even if he has an open mind, just like a guy who is 5’ 2” is not going to go. If the other side is asking specifically about thin, then even with a boy who isn’t waif thin I would think to answer truthfully and save both of you agmas nefesh.

Size 10-12 when the other side is just asking generally about appearance can be tricky because some would say to just give it a chance and let the boy see for himself and I would agree, unless the boy is unusually picky about weight.

Just FYI, my twig thin wispy nephew-in-law married my gorgeous, curvy niece.....it works just fine for some.

I agree that any question someone asks in shidduchim should be answered honestly.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 5:58 am

wrkngmomof2 wrote:

A Shadchan once told my niece something like that - you just need to lose x lbs and then you'll have no problem.
My sister was furious.
Fortunately, that Shadchan is not Hashem, who is the mezaveg zivugim. For your daughter too IYH! The right boy and right time will come (and I can't imagine it will have anything to do with your daughter being a size 8, for goodness sake.)

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:00 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Maybe up to a point. A boy could shape his perceptions on looks based on his mother and sisters....or, he might personally be attracted to something different.

amother

↑ Fuchsia ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:02 am

amother Crocus wrote:

You don’t see a difference between a a size 4-6 and a girl in the top 5th percentile of weight?

You are responding to someone responding to a size 8 who was told to lose 15 lb. So yeah, the girl/mom was told anything bigger than a 4 is a problem.

amother

Amaryllis ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:05 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

They’re mostly probably just making assumptions or projecting their own preferences. When my husband and I were dating, and I met my MIL, she told me that I should wear lipstick, straighten my hair, and do my nails, as my husband was really into that. Well, I tried it, and he was horrified! He asked why I’d “do that” to my hair when I had such nice curls, and why did I “put all that gunk” on my face when I naturally had such a nice face. As for the nails, he said he appreciated the effort (when I told him I’d done it for him), but he much prefers a natural look. When I told him his mother had told me he’d like all that, he was shocked and said he didn’t know why she’d say that, but then thought about it and said that’s the look SHE likes, but she’d never actually asked him. She was always saying how her perfect son really deserved a hot girl, and I couldn’t possibly be right for him because I wasn’t so hot.

amother

Viola

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:13 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

You are responding to someone responding to a size 8 who was told to lose 15 lb. So yeah, the girl/mom was told anything bigger than a 4 is a problem.

This isn’t anything new. 20+ years ago my friend got a call about someone and when the caller asked if the girl is thin, my friend said yes. The caller then asked, skinny like a 2 or skinny like a 4?

As a side point, it’s silly to base off the size of the clothing. Right now I personally gained weight. I’m literally wearing size xl in some clothing and people still think I’m thin and can’t tell I gained weight. I have no idea how, but the point is, if someone cares how someone looks, let them see for themselves without basing it on a number.

amother

Denim ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:14 am

amother Aubergine wrote:

My SIL told us his mother actually asked him what kind of girl he's attracted to, and he said "How should I know?" He didn't really have any preconceived preferences, and figured when he met the right girl he'd know.

I would bet alot of guys are like this, and their mothers or Shadchanim are making assumptions on what they are looking for, based on current trends. Deciding (like posters here) what will "work" for them rather than giving opportunities to shidduch suggestions based on other factors, like personality and hashkafa.

amother

↑ Crocus ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:25 am

Yes of course we sat down with our son and we asked if he is ok with not thinking. He said it depends. We said something like this cousin? He said maybe, not sure. How about someone with a bit of a larger figure than that. He said definitely not.

We did have him go out with one somewhat plus sized girl because she had great kiddos and matched up well and was otherwise pretty. He came back and asked us please to not set him up with a plus sized girl again because it’s just not for him and he is not attractive to him. At that point we started including in our Shidduch questions especially if girl is out of town and willing to fly in. We generally will not ask for pictures of a girl but we will if we are not getting straight answers and it’s unclear if she is going to fly in in vain.

amother

↑ Maple ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:26 am

amother Crocus wrote:

You asked him for his opinion of a relative's body????

amother

↑ Cyclamen ↓

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:28 am

Chayalle wrote:

Just FYI, my twig thin wispy nephew-in-law married my gorgeous, curvy niece.....it works just fine for some.

I agree that any question someone asks in shidduchim should be answered honestly.

Not anything. If someone asked bra size you would answer?

amother

↑ Fuchsia

Tue, Jan 07 2025, 6:29 am

I think the problem is societal goals and how one wants to be perceived.
Society overall values skinny, blonde/straight hair…….
Forget your own attraction for a moment (and most people are not sufficiently in touch with their own actual feelings and preferences, especially as to how much exposure to women do these boys actually have).
Just as we view a certain purse on someone’s arm, or car in their driveway, or brand of stroller to be a sign of success-so too is a spouse, particularly a wife. If she is thin… she is a score and he then must be successful and a catch to have “gotten” her. Wouldn’t you want people to think you are all that (hey you got “her”) as opposed to thinking that you are nebby (a large woman is not societally desirable and if you are with one-especially if you are heavy as well, you must be a nebach who just couldn’t get a top girl.
I recently saw an old episode of a tv show, which illustrated this perfectly. (It was Hot in Cleveland (season 2 episode 2-Bad Beomance) for anyone who watched shtuss-which I do and enjoy tremendously🫣). In a nutshell a beautiful woman becomes engaged to a nebach-she does it for the green-card and he wants this for the status as just walking around with her, he people make assumptions about how great he must be to snag a woman like her and his social standing and peoples perception of him skyrockets without him doing anything himself.

*** I am starting a s/o about top learning-why are they in demand? Does it really make a difference or is it also just societal pressure?