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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
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 Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:48 am
| baked ziti wrote: | | Like I said, store bought kugel warmed in the oven. The cake and challah are also allowed to be bought. |
I’m going to assume from your non-answer that you do not work on Fridays. For some of us who work full-time and come home last minute on a Friday, it can be difficult enough to be ready for Shabbos, and our own family does not get anything served to them on Fridays. It’s catch as can and help yourself. I agree that we would try to have something available to eat, but not necessarily warmed in the oven - which may be pressed into service making something else for the meal.
I’m not disagreeing that it’s optimal to have food to offer guests, I’m just responding to the attitude that comes across as judgmental towards anyone who can’t manage to play host on a hectic and overwhelming Erev Shabbos.
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flowerpower
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:48 am
| giftedmom wrote: | Looks like you bit off more than you can chew.
That doesn’t change the fact that generally speaking if you’re hosting people you’re responsible for providing food.
And yes it was uncalled for for them to arrive early when you specifically asked them not to. But you asked a general question. |
Its her neighbors guest. She should have sent them there to eat. The one making the simcha is the one that is supposed to offer a pre shabbos meal.
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Cookin4days
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:50 am
| amother OP wrote: | If guests come lunch time they will get the same lunch as my family. I'm talking about coming after lunch but before shabbos. I'm focusing on getting the house and all the cooking ready and then I need to stop to host a meal and people making new mess. If it's a long Friday not so much of an issue because I have more time and theres a kugel served late afternoon.
I live in a place where there is multiple stores with ready made food open until an hour before shabbos.
I actually told this family not to come early because I don't have a huge house and I needed to focus on the the Sheva Brochos and not have 10 extra people hanging around my house. They decided to come early to help. Hahahaha. I didn't get a ounce of help just being bad mouthed.
The circumstances were that I was making sheva Brochos for a neighbor who is a relative to this family. The family is DHs brothers family. My neighbor had a huge leak from a freezer that got unplugged the day before the chasuna and she called me crying that she can't cook new food or afford to cater and now she can't host with the smell and I said that I would do it for her. I literally took on the entire sheva Brochos. I also couldn't afford to cater it. I cooked all the food, dealt with the set up and decor from local shops because most of hers was ruined. BH she had booked a waiter that we had and paid for. I was busy borrowing chairs and tables and warmers. The family knew this was going on. I told them not to come early and that things would be very hectic. They decided to come early but they'll help. They came in with a gazillion suitcases, marched into my small kitchen and asked for food.
A few days later they told my neighbor that I kicked them out of the kitchen and nebach they had to go to a local place to buy some food to eat because I didn't serve them. And that I just like to show off my hosting by making the Sheva Brochos but I was so rude to them and I didn't even feed them.
Of course when people come I offer them something to eat or drink but I don't prepare a meal or a spread. In this case I prepared nothing and just handed them random snacks to eat I don't know where because my house was packed with tables and chairs.
I was not asking if I should offer a snack or not I was asking if I'm obliged to feed guests real sit down food in the afternoon before (a winter) shabbos.
If Im wrong I'm wrong, I'll try to do better next time. |
No that’s nasty of them, you’re most definitely not in the wrong
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ra_mom
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:51 am
| amother OP wrote: | If guests come lunch time they will get the same lunch as my family. I'm talking about coming after lunch but before shabbos. I'm focusing on getting the house and all the cooking ready and then I need to stop to host a meal and people making new mess. If it's a long Friday not so much of an issue because I have more time and theres a kugel served late afternoon.
I live in a place where there is multiple stores with ready made food open until an hour before shabbos.
I actually told this family not to come early because I don't have a huge house and I needed to focus on the the Sheva Brochos and not have 10 extra people hanging around my house. They decided to come early to help. Hahahaha. I didn't get a ounce of help just being bad mouthed.
The circumstances were that I was making sheva Brochos for a neighbor who is a relative to this family. The family is DHs brothers family. My neighbor had a huge leak from a freezer that got unplugged the day before the chasuna and she called me crying that she can't cook new food or afford to cater and now she can't host with the smell and I said that I would do it for her. I literally took on the entire sheva Brochos. I also couldn't afford to cater it. I cooked all the food, dealt with the set up and decor from local shops because most of hers was ruined. BH she had booked a waiter that we had and paid for. I was busy borrowing chairs and tables and warmers. The family knew this was going on. I told them not to come early and that things would be very hectic. They decided to come early but they'll help. They came in with a gazillion suitcases, marched into my small kitchen and asked for food.
A few days later they told my neighbor that I kicked them out of the kitchen and nebach they had to go to a local place to buy some food to eat because I didn't serve them. And that I just like to show off my hosting by making the Sheva Brochos but I was so rude to them and I didn't even feed them.
Of course when people come I offer them something to eat or drink but I don't prepare a meal or a spread. In this case I prepared nothing and just handed them random snacks to eat I don't know where because my house was packed with tables and chairs.
I was not asking if I should offer a snack or not I was asking if I'm obliged to feed guests real sit down food in the afternoon before (a winter) shabbos.
If Im wrong I'm wrong, I'll try to do better next time. |
OP, this thread shows that it's all about context.
You are amazing! Pat yourself on the back- on both shoulders!! Hashem should bench you for all that you did and for taking this on.
You did nothing wrong. These people were wrong to
1. show up early when you told them why you needed them not to
2. ask for food when they already knew the situation and saw you in frenzied rush. I actually think that's plain chutzpah.
3. spoke bad about you to the relative? like what?
You have a tremendous mitzvah for the Simcha that you catered and hosted last minute.
Hopefully you can find it in your heart to forgive these people for how they acted. Maybe they just were clueless but hopefully they'll do better next time.
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giftedmom
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:51 am
| flowerpower wrote: | | Its her neighbors guest. She should have sent them there to eat. The one making the simcha is the one that is supposed to offer a pre shabbos meal. |
Agreed. Looks like the kind of situation where everyone expected everyone else to do the job.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:57 am
I didn't "bite off more than I could chew" I was doing a chessed, it was a a lot but please don't make me this martyr that short changed my guests because of poor planning.
Yes in this situation I really did think that I was not in the wrong but the horror of not serving them real food made me second guess other times that I have guests and am not serving a meal at that time.
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Bnei Berak 10
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 11:58 am
| amother OP wrote: | If guests come lunch time they will get the same lunch as my family. I'm talking about coming after lunch but before shabbos. I'm focusing on getting the house and all the cooking ready and then I need to stop to host a meal and people making new mess. If it's a long Friday not so much of an issue because I have more time and theres a kugel served late afternoon.
I live in a place where there is multiple stores with ready made food open until an hour before shabbos.
I actually told this family not to come early because I don't have a huge house and I needed to focus on the the Sheva Brochos and not have 10 extra people hanging around my house. They decided to come early to help. Hahahaha. I didn't get a ounce of help just being bad mouthed.
The circumstances were that I was making sheva Brochos for a neighbor who is a relative to this family. The family is DHs brothers family. My neighbor had a huge leak from a freezer that got unplugged the day before the chasuna and she called me crying that she can't cook new food or afford to cater and now she can't host with the smell and I said that I would do it for her. I literally took on the entire sheva Brochos. I also couldn't afford to cater it. I cooked all the food, dealt with the set up and decor from local shops because most of hers was ruined. BH she had booked a waiter that we had and paid for. I was busy borrowing chairs and tables and warmers. The family knew this was going on. I told them not to come early and that things would be very hectic. They decided to come early but they'll help. They came in with a gazillion suitcases, marched into my small kitchen and asked for food.
A few days later they told my neighbor that I kicked them out of the kitchen and nebach they had to go to a local place to buy some food to eat because I didn't serve them. And that I just like to show off my hosting by making the Sheva Brochos but I was so rude to them and I didn't even feed them.
Of course when people come I offer them something to eat or drink but I don't prepare a meal or a spread. In this case I prepared nothing and just handed them random snacks to eat I don't know where because my house was packed with tables and chairs.
I was not asking if I should offer a snack or not I was asking if I'm obliged to feed guests real sit down food in the afternoon before (a winter) shabbos.
If Im wrong I'm wrong, I'll try to do better next time. |
Your guests were beyond rude!! They couldn't see you were up to your neck?!
I wouldn't host these people again and if they badmouthed me I wouldn't hesitate to call them up and tell them what I want through.
You made a huge chessed for host sheva Brachot Shabbos.
If people don't want to host Shabbos sheva brachot anymore I can surely understand them.
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giftedmom
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:01 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I didn't "bite off more than I could chew" I was doing a chessed, it was a a lot but please don't make me this martyr that short changed my guests because of poor planning.
Yes in this situation I really did think that I was not in the wrong but the horror of not serving them real food made me second guess other times that I have guests and am not serving a meal at that time. |
In this situation you hosted them for your neighbor so she should’ve given them food. But in general if you host including meals then that includes the entire time they are by you.
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amother
Grape
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:05 pm
I don't usually host because I don't have the space but I do go away pretty often.
I don't expect to be fed on Friday unless it was a very long trip. If it's a 1-2 hour trip we usually buy food to eat in the car.
If we get offered food when we come it is greatly appreciated especially for the kids.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:07 pm
Picture this: you invite someone for shabbos in June.
They arrive after lunch and then just go about their business getting settled in.
Do u think it’s ok to let your guest go without food till the meal is served apprx 1-2 hours after shabbos begins? What if they have little kids? Do u expect them to bring along food to eat in your fully stocked home? (U invited them, right?)
And furthermore, do you want them opening ur fridge and pantry in search of food?
Perhaps on shorter fridays the expectation is that if they arrive after a certain time they have eaten kunch already. But if they haven’t, do u want them going hungry till the meal is served?
For some, it means a full spread of cholent, kugel and more. For others it’s easy to grab schnitzel or pasta or even cake n fruits.
Regardless of what you choose to serve, you do not want your guests going hungry.
What about motze shabbos? Do they fend for themselves or do u offer them a bite to eat. (They may decline if theyre not hungry)
Makes no difference if one works or not. Your hosting duties begin when they show up and end when they leave. If theyre close enough, they can fend for themselves but u have to be ok with that. And it doesnt have to be fancy… it just has to be edible food.
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watergirl
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:09 pm
| amother Tealblue wrote: | Picture this: you invite someone for shabbos in June.
They arrive after lunch and then just go about their business getting settled in.
Do u think it’s ok to let your guest go without food till the meal is served apprx 1-2 hours after shabbos begins? What if they have little kids? Do u expect them to bring among food to eat in your fully stocked home? (U invited them, right?)
And furthermore, do you want them opening ur fridge and pantry in search of food?
Perhaps on shorter fridays the expectation is that if they arrive after a certain time they have eaten kunch already. But if they haven’t, do u want them going hungry till the meal is served?
For some, it means a full spread of cholent, kugel and more. For others it’s easy to grab schnitzel or pasta or even cake n fruits.
Regardless of what you choose to serve, you do not want your guests going hungry.
What about motze shabbos? Do they fend for themselves or do u offer them a bite to eat. (They may decline if theyre not hungry)
Makes no difference if one works or not. Your hosting duties begin when they show up and end when they leave. If theyre close enough, they can fend for themselves but u have to be ok with that. And it doesnt have to be fancy… it just has to be edible food. |
If my guest arrived at 1 o’clock on a Friday in June, and I did not know beforehand, but that’s what they would be doing, and I did not prepare in advance, that is just unbelievably rude on behalf of the guests.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:11 pm
| watergirl wrote: | | If my guest arrived at 1 o’clock on a Friday in June, and I did not know beforehand, but that’s what they would be doing, and I did not prepare in advance, that is just unbelievably rude on behalf of the guests. |
In my experience, the expectation is that they will arrive any time in the afternoon. Especially if their drive is longer than a few minutes and they anticipate traffic.
In addition to that, if you have the same age kids as your guests and theyre close friends or family, theyll arrive earlier since their kids and my kids cant wait for each other to arrive
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Raizle
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:22 pm
| amother OP wrote: | If guests come lunch time they will get the same lunch as my family. I'm talking about coming after lunch but before shabbos. I'm focusing on getting the house and all the cooking ready and then I need to stop to host a meal and people making new mess. If it's a long Friday not so much of an issue because I have more time and theres a kugel served late afternoon.
I live in a place where there is multiple stores with ready made food open until an hour before shabbos.
I actually told this family not to come early because I don't have a huge house and I needed to focus on the the Sheva Brochos and not have 10 extra people hanging around my house. They decided to come early to help. Hahahaha. I didn't get a ounce of help just being bad mouthed.
The circumstances were that I was making sheva Brochos for a neighbor who is a relative to this family. The family is DHs brothers family. My neighbor had a huge leak from a freezer that got unplugged the day before the chasuna and she called me crying that she can't cook new food or afford to cater and now she can't host with the smell and I said that I would do it for her. I literally took on the entire sheva Brochos. I also couldn't afford to cater it. I cooked all the food, dealt with the set up and decor from local shops because most of hers was ruined. BH she had booked a waiter that we had and paid for. I was busy borrowing chairs and tables and warmers. The family knew this was going on. I told them not to come early and that things would be very hectic. They decided to come early but they'll help. They came in with a gazillion suitcases, marched into my small kitchen and asked for food.
A few days later they told my neighbor that I kicked them out of the kitchen and nebach they had to go to a local place to buy some food to eat because I didn't serve them. And that I just like to show off my hosting by making the Sheva Brochos but I was so rude to them and I didn't even feed them.
Of course when people come I offer them something to eat or drink but I don't prepare a meal or a spread. In this case I prepared nothing and just handed them random snacks to eat I don't know where because my house was packed with tables and chairs.
I was not asking if I should offer a snack or not I was asking if I'm obliged to feed guests real sit down food in the afternoon before (a winter) shabbos.
If Im wrong I'm wrong, I'll try to do better next time. |
I think you know you did nothing wrong.
Why did your neighbour have to repeat it to you?
Your guests were rude and ungrateful.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:24 pm
| amother Tealblue wrote: | In my experience, the expectation is that they will arrive any time in the afternoon. Especially if their drive is longer than a few minutes and they anticipate traffic.
In addition to that, if you have the same age kids as your guests and theyre close friends or family, theyll arrive earlier since their kids and my kids cant wait for each other to arrive |
When I’m driving some distance and anticipate traffic, I also try to leave early to be in the neighborhood where I’m staying without worrying about getting stuck before Shabbos. But if it’s anyone besides my own kids (or maybe a sibling that I am close with) I try not to knock on the host’s door before an hour to Shabbos. (And even with my own kids, I let them know my ETA.) I would never turn up at 1:00 on a June Friday expecting to be served a meal at that time. I would find a local pizza shop (or similar) and take care of myself and family. Unless the host specifically said we will be serving at X time, please come, I would be trying not to impose on them while they’re busy getting ready for Shabbos.
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Raizle
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:25 pm
| amother Tealblue wrote: | Picture this: you invite someone for shabbos in June.
They arrive after lunch and then just go about their business getting settled in.
Do u think it’s ok to let your guest go without food till the meal is served apprx 1-2 hours after shabbos begins? What if they have little kids? Do u expect them to bring along food to eat in your fully stocked home? (U invited them, right?)
And furthermore, do you want them opening ur fridge and pantry in search of food?
Perhaps on shorter fridays the expectation is that if they arrive after a certain time they have eaten kunch already. But if they haven’t, do u want them going hungry till the meal is served?
For some, it means a full spread of cholent, kugel and more. For others it’s easy to grab schnitzel or pasta or even cake n fruits.
Regardless of what you choose to serve, you do not want your guests going hungry.
What about motze shabbos? Do they fend for themselves or do u offer them a bite to eat. (They may decline if theyre not hungry)
Makes no difference if one works or not. Your hosting duties begin when they show up and end when they leave. If theyre close enough, they can fend for themselves but u have to be ok with that. And it doesnt have to be fancy… it just has to be edible food. |
She specifically told them not to come early because she'll be busy, they didn't come from so far away that they couldn't have eaten before and there were shops they could go to eat at
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joker
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:26 pm
First of all- I wouldn't believe what was reported to you it's motzai sham ra and very likely not true
Second- you were hosting someone else's company and they expected to be fed ?!!? What in the world ??? I have never ever heard of this before. That's literally insane!!!
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joker
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:28 pm
| amother Tealblue wrote: | Picture this: you invite someone for shabbos in June.
They arrive after lunch and then just go about their business getting settled in.
Do u think it’s ok to let your guest go without food till the meal is served apprx 1-2 hours after shabbos begins? What if they have little kids? Do u expect them to bring along food to eat in your fully stocked home? (U invited them, right?)
And furthermore, do you want them opening ur fridge and pantry in search of food?
Perhaps on shorter fridays the expectation is that if they arrive after a certain time they have eaten kunch already. But if they haven’t, do u want them going hungry till the meal is served?
For some, it means a full spread of cholent, kugel and more. For others it’s easy to grab schnitzel or pasta or even cake n fruits.
Regardless of what you choose to serve, you do not want your guests going hungry.
What about motze shabbos? Do they fend for themselves or do u offer them a bite to eat. (They may decline if theyre not hungry)
Makes no difference if one works or not. Your hosting duties begin when they show up and end when they leave. If theyre close enough, they can fend for themselves but u have to be ok with that. And it doesnt have to be fancy… it just has to be edible food. |
I hope this is a joke
As a lifelong out of towners who has driven in to many diff places for many diff things we never expect anything or to be fed! Are you two??? Bring food in advance or stop at a pizza store!!! Omg you also won't die if you don't eat for a few hours. Unless I was hosting a simcha then yes I would include toameah.
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amother
Dustypink
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:31 pm
It sounds like some mental illness involved here. You clearly stated they should not show up early, they did anyway and then cried that you didn't serve them a meal. I wouldn't give it another second's thought.
Now if you're asking about other occasions, that is so dependent on the circumstances. Someone who is traveling 5+ hours should be told clearly in advance what they should do when they arrive as far as food and freshening up. Anyone traveling 4 hours or less can figure it out for themselves.
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amother
Tanzanite
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:42 pm
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I only go away for Shabbos if I have a family simcha. There is always toameha on Friday afternoon. I was surprised by my first nephew's bar mitzvah since I never eat a meal so close to Shabbos, but as many of my nephews were bar mitzvahed before my boys, I knew already to have something set up for Friday afternoon and to put toameha on the schedule. The only person who ever comes to me for Shabbos (besides my boys' bar mitzvahs) is MIL. She knows that I spend most of Friday afternoon in the park with my kids. If she wants something to eat, she helps herself. I definitely don't serve a meal on Friday, but she's welcome to whatever my kids are noshing on at the moment.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 05 2025, 12:43 pm
| joker wrote: | I hope this is a joke
As a lifelong out of towners who has driven in to many diff places for many diff things we never expect anything or to be fed! Are you two??? Bring food in advance or stop at a pizza store!!! Omg you also won't die if you don't eat for a few hours. Unless I was hosting a simcha then yes I would include toameah. |
This is absolutely not a joke both from the standpoint of host and hostee.
Ive hosted and been hosted more times than I can count and at least in my circles, you can expect your and ur kids to be fed in one way or another for the duration of your stay.
(This is when ur invited as guest, not when you’re hosting someone’s guest and theyll he eating elsewhere)
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