Why do some consider going to college a complete waste?

amother

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:54 pm

And not part of normal hishtadlus?

Yes, we all know of a zillion people who are fantastically wealthy who never made it past 8th grade. Fine.

But doesn't college open more doors than otherwise? Aren't there more opportunities for those with degrees in certain fields that wouldn't be available without college?

Doesn't hashem run the world according to teva in just about every way imaginable? Why would this be excluded and the people going to college are wasting their time?

amother

Bluebell ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:02 pm

It’s not worth the debt. It doesn’t help to just go unless you know what you really want to major in. It’s overrated majorly. Many jobs care more about experience than a degree. It’s a way to fill young minds with woke ideology and to control the masses, so it’s actually dangerous poison. Vocational school is a much safer bet.

fleetwood

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

Because they don't want a profession which requires a degree

amother

Bluebonnet ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:06 pm

Because college isn't the be all end all, comes with serious risks, and pushing college for everyone comes with many of the same problems that come with pushing kollel for everyone. College is SOMETIMES the right path, but not always. And not done right can be plenty financially disastrous. Ultimately, what we need to do is help teens and young adults come up with a viable plan. College should not be dismissed, it should be considered, but no, it should never be viewed as the only path for all or even most.

mha3484 ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:14 pm

I was a stupid 18 year old who took out a lot of debt for private college and looking back I was probably too immature because I partied a lot the first few years. I regret some of my choices a lot. I should have gone to a much cheaper state school and lived at home. I think I did gain from the courses I took so I don't fully regret it but I could have done it so much cheaper.

What I plan to tell my own kids is that college is worth it if you can go to community college/state college and take on as little debt as possible. I would strongly discourage private college. But many many people are better suited for the professions that do require higher education and if that's what you enjoy and can be good at, you should go for it just be smart about it.

amother

Chocolate

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:18 pm

Because college doesn't help you be a better sheital macher or run a basement daycare or at home baking service. At least this is what my daughter's 12th grade friends say about why they aren't going to college. My daughter, on the other hand, wants to become a doctor so she's nerding out hard over the college programs but she's also pragmatic. Local college with a lower end med school still get her where she wants to be but the cost is much less so we can support more. She can get married and we can help because she isn't planning to go to NYU or something similar. A lot of her friends aren't even going to college because they want to do community specific things that make just enough to help carry the load after they get married. They all plan to get married within 2 years (except my daughter who isn't convinced she's ready.)

lavendar310

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:18 pm

I think if someone is saying at 18 he wants to be a Dr then college is obviously the way to go but for someone who doesn't know and is just getting a degree in nothing-why spend the 20k (in my case) or 120k (in my best friends case) getting that degree? It shouldn't be the distinguishing factor between you and the next guy who also doesn't know what to do cuz if you both go into car mechanics he starts out net 0 and you start out net -120k
Also college indoctrinates people with such insanity and wokeness and doesn't just tell you what you need to know about your profession that people are trying to pop the college myth that it's the only way to make a living in this day and age. Cuz in reality, it's not. I think agudah has a list of over 70 professions (or jobs) that someone can go into without a college degree.

Fox

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:35 pm

mha3484 wrote:

This is 100 percent the correct attitude.

This graphic tells the story, and note that (a) it's an average; and (b) it doesn't include any dorm, meal, or living expenses:

I grew up on the campus of a regional state school where my parents taught in the late-60s and 70s. The majority of students were paying their own way -- with a combination of part-time work; summer jobs; and small gifts from relatives. In 1970, it was quite practical to do that. You wouldn't be living luxuriously, but you'd leave college with zero debt.

That's virtually impossible today. College is just too expensive. And the value has not kept up with the price.

small bean

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:39 pm

Depends what you want to do if a college degree is worth it. It doesn't always help.

You want to be a doctor. Go

You want to own a business, yes you can go for an MBA or something similar but really it won't help you enough.

A plumber, should go to trade school, he doesn't need a college degree.

There are tons of successful people out there, that are earning a lot more than those college educated, and I'm not talking about frum people.

amother

Lightcoral ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

Number one thing is to live a life serving Hashem. Everything we do should be towards that goal. I'm not into kollel lifestyle. I believe there is honor and holiness in a man working to support his family (and a woman too, if it is necessary or desired, and good for the family). This can be achieved with or without a college degree. Yes, certain fields and certain doors are only going to open with that kind of education. If my child wanted to be a doctor or lawyer, and they felt strongly about it, I'd support their choice to seek out a college education - though these days with so many schools being not only liberal brainwashing centers but also heavily anti-semitic, my first choice would be for them to do as much of their education online as possible and secondly to attend a Jewish college. But I am hopeful they will work in a family business, go to a trade school, become an entrepreneur, or anything they can do without college. It's costly, exposes young people to a lot of negatives, and is no guarantee of financial success in life. I know plenty of people who paid (or their parents paid) through the nose for a college education, even masters programs, and they make peanuts.

amother

NeonPurple

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:26 pm

If you want to go to grad school of any type ,use a bachelors as just a stepping stone. So do the bachelors in the quickest /cheapest/safest/most efficient way for the profession you want . The grad school (law, medicine , ….) is the one that counts most.

Coming from a family of multiple lawyers and other professionals who got bachelors from “terrible” colleges /frum institutions and BH went on to top graduate schools and BH some have great and some have very good jobs in their chosen professions.

amother

Teal ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:29 pm

giftedmom wrote:

As others said, unless you’re going for a very specific degree like medicine or law, it’s a scam that’ll just waste your time, weigh you down with debt, and leave you poor with lots of useless information.

Its not a scam. You can go to a cheaper school and not have any debt. It helps you be a well rounded person. Only someone uneducated would think it's a scam.

↑ mha3484

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:31 pm

Even for a tradesman or entrepreneur there are foundational core classes in accounting, management styles, human resources that really should be taken. I am a vendor to a certain subset of frum owned businesses, none of whom went to college, and I want to constantly bang my head against a wall. A few courses at a local community college would do a lot of these people wonders. So its not all or nothing.

My FIL A'H was a doctor and trusted his bookkeeper too much and she stole from him. He didnt realize until it was too late. I have heard many other stories in which this happened because the owner didnt understand his books.

Last edited by mha3484 on Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Skyblue

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:32 pm

I did my degree many years ago and had a bursury to support it. I don't know if it's really helped me significantly in life. I have friends in a similar line of work and are also earning a similar wage.
I think that some careers need a degree and others experience can be just as valuable. And the amount of debt makes you wonder whether it's really worth a degree today.

amother

↑ Lightcoral ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:32 pm

amother Teal wrote:

Its not a scam. You can go to a cheaper school and not have any debt. It helps you be a well rounded person. Only someone uneducated would think it's a scam.

That's rude. Also untrue. I'm college educated and if I had it to do over again I'd never go. I've done nothing with my degree but it cost my parents a ton of money. My "well rounded" education is mostly useful for playing trivia games.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:33 pm

amother Teal wrote:

Its not a scam. You can go to a cheaper school and not have any debt. It helps you be a well rounded person. Only someone uneducated would think it's a scam.

Why do I want to be a well rounded person? (Well I am quite round if thats what you mean)
I have no use for half the information.

amother

Arcticblue

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:33 pm

As usual our government is at fault for the current state of our education system. A bank will not lend a student 150k to major in dance theory. They want to lend money to people pursuing careers that they believe will generate enough income to cover the cost of the loan. Once the government began subsidizing loans for all students no matter if the subject they are studying is useful, two things happened 1. Colleges, realizing more students are now applying, raised their prices 2. Students began taking out loans to study subjects that will never help them earn any income