Why do some consider going to college a complete waste?

DrMom ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:37 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

That's rude. Also untrue. I'm college educated and if I had it to do over again I'd never go. I've done nothing with my degree but it cost my parents a ton of money. My "well rounded" education is mostly useful for playing trivia games.

I love the fact that I have a well-rounded education. I find I enjoy so much of life that I wouldn't otherwise appreciate without a solid foundation in a broad range of topics.

And yes, it also helps me professionally in many unexpected ways.

I am grateful for my excellent university education.

Last edited by DrMom on Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

DarkPurple ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

And not part of normal hishtadlus?

Yes, we all know of a zillion people who are fantastically wealthy who never made it past 8th grade. Fine.

But doesn't college open more doors than otherwise? Aren't there more opportunities for those with degrees in certain fields that wouldn't be available without college?

Doesn't hashem run the world according to teva in just about every way imaginable? Why would this be excluded and the people going to college are wasting their time?

It definitely opens more doors. It shouldn't be required en masse, that's the only issue I have with it. Each individual should make their own assessment and decide accordingly. And if an 18 year old doesn't yet know what he or she wants, they shouldn't attend college until they're on more solid ground.

And be smart about it. Take local courses for Gen Ed. If everyone in your community is going for the same few degrees, you likely won't be earning big bucks since the field will become oversaturated. Don't earn a degree in fields that don't translate to decent pay. Etc.

What irks me is our collective negativity to it. We are so used to conformity, and pushing everyone onto similar paths, that we take the same black and white approach to college. Just because it isn't for everyone, doesn't mean it's for no one. We don't need to demonize it just because we are hesitant to apply individuality to it.

So to turn it back to your question - yes, college is a good tool for hishtadlus actions. We shouldn't ignore it, and we shouldn't apply it en masse. Introduce it as an acceptable option and let people choose.

amother

Pansy ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:46 pm

amother Teal wrote:

Its not a scam. You can go to a cheaper school and not have any debt. It helps you be a well rounded person. Only someone uneducated would think it's a scam.

Maybe not a scam per say, but no, it does not help you become a well rounded person. That is a scam.
I went to a not very expensive university. Had no debt thankfully. But I got a BA that helped me with nothing in life. Its over 20 years later and I make minimum wage and college helped me with absolutely zero.

amother

Phlox

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:48 pm

Going to college for a field which requires a degree, like dr, lawyer, etc. is great. Most professions don’t require a degree and IMO in that case college is a waste of time and money

DH and I worked for the same company, he had a bachelors in finance and I had a a GED. We both got hired, both had the same ladder to climb and the same opportunities. Our salaries were comparable

At this point in our careers no one cares about the degree anyways, just experience and track record

I will 100% encourage my kids to pursue a good career and will pay for their college if they need it to be in that field. But I’d rather my kids go to a vocational school or take a specialized certificate course to learn a skill, rather than get a useless liberal arts degree.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:52 pm

DrMom wrote:

The only thing I'm grateful for in terms of my BA is that it got me my first job. It's logical to assume that I wouldn't have gotten any subsequent jobs without having that first job on my resume, and I am definitely still using the skills that I gained at that job. So I guess in that sense, I'm glad I went.

I went to a well-respective (not Ivy League, but still well-respected) private college on a full merit scholarship. Hated every minute of it. I thought I wanted to go into a field that needed a college education, and my parents insisted that we all get one, so...there it was.

College did not make me well-rounded, nor did I enjoy it. Even though it didn't cost me financially, I'll never get those years back. There may be a few things I learned in college, but not enough to offset the waste of the years I spent there.

I now have several teenagers. One has the mind of an engineer, so I guess they will need to get a bachelor's degree somehow, unless they find work in a related field that doesn't need one. One will probably go into business or a similar field because that's their skill set. I'm hopeful they won't need college and will use internships or other means to gain the skills they'll need. The third will probably stay in yeshiva for a long time and do something in klei kodesh. If I had to guess, I'd say he'll be a dayan one day.

amother

↑ Lightcoral ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:53 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

Here's the flip side. I didn't go to college, I have no degree, I am not good with my hands or with numbers or with computers. I failed at 3 businesses and I'm just stuck. I have no way to make a parnassah.

What would you have liked to pursue a degree in? Towards what field of work? That you feel you'd have possibly excelled in? Because just the act of going, and earning a liberal arts degree, for example, is a fairly poor investment of time and money IMO.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:58 pm

At a bachelors level, I am skeptical of the actual value of most of the classes especially compared to the cost.
I strongly believe in quicky or lower quality bachelor's degree
At a graduate degree level, I believe it has a lot of value.
The courses tend to be targeted to the career.
Therefore the cost at the graduate level- MBA, accounting, speech, nursing, etc seems more worthwhile.

amother

↑ Bluebonnet ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:02 pm

amother Teal wrote:

Its not a scam. You can go to a cheaper school and not have any debt. It helps you be a well rounded person. Only someone uneducated would think it's a scam.

I'm quite well educated with a bachelor's and two masters degrees, thankyouverymuch. I even enjoyed most of the process of getting all those degrees. I still say that unfortunately, college has become a scam more often than not. No one needs to spend five or six figures to become well rounded either, there's plenty you can learn if you want to without shelling out that kind of money. Even for fields that do require a degree, it's still somewhat scammy that you have to go through four years of undergrad BEFORE the years of specialized training of medical or law school or post doc etc. Most other first world countries don't even require that. So yes, college is more scam than not.

amother

Hawthorn

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:06 pm

Getting a degree and going to a 4 year liberal arts college and majoring in something silly are two different things.

It makes sense to get a degree or go to graduate school so you will have a higher earning job. It does not make sense to take out loans to spend 4 years getting a “well rounded education” with no marketable skills after graduation.

Speaking as someone who bH has no debt but no real skills going to a private liberal arts college but bH has a dH who got scholarships to public university and got a masters who is working in a high paying field only possible with the degree he has.

amother

Aqua

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:17 pm

College is most definitely NOT a waste of time. I went to community college, graduated from a 4 year college with 0 debt and landed a job for 85k. I live in an OOT community.

But people are able to waste money if they choose a degree that doesn’t have financial opportunity . Or if they go to a private school and accumulate a lot of student debt

Going to community college for associates degree is the best solution. Work while in community college to save $20k for bachelors degree. Then pay off it off right away after graduation. Works like a charm

↑ giftedmom

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:44 pm

DrMom wrote:

I’ve been called a walking encyclopedia on occasion but apparently I must be uneducated because amother teal said so. Those students taking over buildings have got to be smarter than me.
Fun fact. Going down rabbit holes on Google is free, as is reading (depending on where you got the books from)

amother

Mulberry

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:51 pm

amother Slateblue wrote:

Some people's talents lie in fields that don't need a college degree. My child w/o a degree earns more than I do, and more than another child - both of us with degrees. But this child has strengths and interests that are different than ours.

It's a fallacy that going to college earns you a good parnossah. That's old school and doesn't jive anymore. Just live email is a lot faster than snail mail. Times have been changing for a while.

chanatron1000

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:58 pm

Why do we talk about these things as if everyone had the same abilities and temperament? Some people thrive in college and have amazing careers. Other people fail at college or hate it and aren't suited for the career paths it opens either. We need people in the trades and in the professions that don't require more than a high school diploma, so why act like there's one right path for everyone?

ShishKabob

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 3:59 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

Smartest post award

amother

↑ Teal

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:00 pm

amother Lightcoral wrote:

That's sad . You should've taken out loans or gone to a cheaper college.

amother

Cerise

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:06 pm

amother Chocolate wrote:

Because college doesn't help you be a better sheital macher or run a basement daycare or at home baking service. At least this is what my daughter's 12th grade friends say about why they aren't going to college. My daughter, on the other hand, wants to become a doctor so she's nerding out hard over the college programs but she's also pragmatic. Local college with a lower end med school still get her where she wants to be but the cost is much less so we can support more. She can get married and we can help because she isn't planning to go to NYU or something similar. A lot of her friends aren't even going to college because they want to do community specific things that make just enough to help carry the load after they get married. They all plan to get married within 2 years (except my daughter who isn't convinced she's ready.)

I just wanted to say that NYU was offering free tuition med school due to an endowment, look it up in case this is still happening.

↑ DrMom

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 4:24 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

It doesn't sound like you were at all motivated to be there, so of course it was not a good experience for you.

If I was sent against my will to study someplace I intensely disliked, I'd probably not get much out of it either.