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Forum
-> Parenting our children
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kenz
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 Today at 6:49 am
| Ema of 5 wrote: | | I think this thread would have played out differently if the op had said she had gone over to the mom and offered to help her, rather than offer her advice on how to take care of her baby. |
Pretty sure she did say that but it was followed by specific advice and unfortunately most people get defensive rather than appreciative when confronted with constructive criticism.
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amother
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Today at 7:20 am
| Cheiny wrote: | I guess I should’ve expected all the justifications… but if you had seen what I saw, you’d know none of the above were likely or even possible.
And even if the child had removed every piece of clothing, and opened her jacket, or had a diaper blowout, it would still be beyond irresponsible to take the child out for a long shopping trip and keep the unclothed baby outside for that long while she talked on the phone and leisurely loaded the many bags into the car… everything I saw was just wrong.
As far as your claim that 20 degree weather isn’t cold, I’d challenge you to stand outside with no gloves on for 10 minutes and then picture the baby with no gloves, nothing on their legs or feet, and an open jacket, and then let us know if you maintain your position.
As I said, my hands were freezing through my gloves… that poor child.. |
I’ve done it many times. It’s not as bad as you make it sound. I’ve deliberately gone out in the snow in shorts and a Tshirt. Many people do it now. New research has shown that it’s actually good for you.
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amother
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Today at 7:25 am
| amother Fuchsia wrote: | | I mean, if you live in Florida 40 degrees is extremely cold. It’s all relative. But as someone who lives somewhere that’s routinely below zero Fahrenheit and has seen wind chills in the -50s F, I can assure you, being outside in 20 degree weather for 5-10 minutes is in no way dangerous. Is it uncomfortable? Sure. But the child would have been just fine when she got into the car with a heater and a warm blanket. |
Some people find it more uncomfortable than others and some people are fine with the cold and can enjoy it. I think people like OP are afraid of the cold and grew up with a mindset that it’s dangerous and will make you sick without realizing that you’d need to be out for hours for it to actually be dangerous. No harm has ever happened from going out in the cold not dressed for 5-10 minutes at a time. I’m sure that baby was fine.
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Ema of 5
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Today at 7:49 am
| kenz wrote: | | Pretty sure she did say that but it was followed by specific advice and unfortunately most people get defensive rather than appreciative when confronted with constructive criticism. |
She said she went over to OFFER help, but this is what she wrote she said.
I interrupted her phone conversation and gently suggested the baby needed to be wearing socks and not have her legs exposed in below freezing weather, as I felt that was the most pressing issue.
Offering to help doesn’t need to come with verbal judgement.
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amother
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Today at 8:05 am
| amother Mistyrose wrote: | I'm still trying to understand whether this is 20C or 20F.
We are 20C here, some days higher some days lower, and it's nowhere near freezing. |
Farenheit, actually the real temp was closer to 30 but with the wind chill it was in the 20s, it was truly cold.
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amother
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Today at 8:23 am
| amother Steel wrote: | No, it's about an ability to plan ahead which is developmental and comes with age. The same way a young child might say they are not tired, and truly believe they do not need sleep, because they lack the ability to understand how they will feel tomorrow without sleep. Or how they will feel if they eat too much candy or what it will do to their teeth. Etc.
Your house is warm, you step outside for a minute and the cold doesn't hit you. A young child thinks they do not need the coat. They haven't internalized how being outside in that weather for several minutes will actually feel, and that a car isn't as warm or takes several minutes to heat up.
Yesterday I was out with dd 12. She insisted a fall jacket was fine. I very strongly recommended she take her winter coat but she is 12 and I didn't force it. Well even though we went right into the car, and then into the store, she soon admitted that she was freezing and should have taken her warmer coat. |
No actually, some people just don’t mind the cold. Some people prefer the cold to the bulk of a coat. Some people enjoy the thrill of the cold. DS 7, doesn’t wear a coat. Ever. We live where it gets freezing. He owns a coat. I’m not a neglectful mother. He just doesn’t want to wear it. He can make his own choices. Being cold for 10 minutes doesn’t make you sick.
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amother
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Today at 8:26 am
Sheesh the judgement on this thread. Why the assumption OP that you know better? This is the kids Mom, she loves him. Not saying moms never abuse but in most situations Moms know what they’re doing even if they (gasp) think differently than you do.
Would you ever let your kid climb somewhere that they may fall from? Some parents will yell abuse about that.
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amother
Azure
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Today at 8:42 am
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I let my 5 yo choose, but its usually around 17 C outside...
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amother
Holly
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Today at 8:59 am
I apologize in advance fornwhat I'm going to say. It's not like me but this is getting under my skin. I've noticed a trend with the op. Multiple threads started with extreme judgements on scenarios she's seen in which mothers aren't mothering correctly according to her opinions. They go on for pages and nothing anyone says can change her mind thay maybe the parent wasn't actually abusing/neglecting thier child.
It's ok to have not perfect parenting moments. It's usually ok to let kids have autonomy of their bodies even they make mistakes sometimes. Mistakes help people learn for the next time that something should be done differently.
In this case, in Lakewood yesterday it was 39 degrees, yes cold but also not so terrible to not be bundled up to your ears every moment spent outdoors.
Thanks for listening to my rant. I hope people are able to see scenarios without so much judgement even if it's not fathomable how it can be so.
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amother
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Today at 9:02 am
| Cheiny wrote: | I went out this morning to the supermarket. It was extremely cold, I believe in the high 20’s. When I came out of the store, there was a mother holding a baby in her arms, speaking on her cell phone, and walking to her car with a huge wagon filled with many shopping bags full of groceries. As she juggled her phone, her baby and the wagon, she then proceeded to open the trunk of her car to load the groceries. She was moving slowly presumably because she was doing all three at once.
I glanced at the baby and was horrified when I noticed the child (perhaps a few months old) had nothing covering his/her legs from the knees down, they probably were wearing either a skimpy stretchie or a thin pajama, so nothing covering the legs or feet at all, no socks, and the jacket he/she was wearing on top was completely open and undone!
I myself was wearing gloves and my hands were frozen even with the gloves on, so I was imagining how that baby must’ve been freezing with his/her legs and feet completely bare and the jacket not even zipped or buttoned up! I was close enough to hear the mother’s phone conversation which was a casual one, so no, this wasn’t an “emergency situation,” which I’m sure some here may soon suggest…
As I watched her taking her time, loading the many bags into her car, again while juggling her phone and the baby in her other hand, I went over to offer my help… I interrupted her phone conversation and gently suggested the baby needed to be wearing socks and not have her legs exposed in below freezing weather, as I felt that was the most pressing issue. Before I could offer my help with the bags, she curtly nodded to me and then turned her back and returned to her call.
I pray for that helpless baby who must’ve been absolutely freezing. What I did notice was that ironically the mother was dressed very warmly herself. Everything was covered. She also was not very young looking, so no way to explain it away as a very young, first-time mother who doesn’t know any better… She finally decided to put the child into the car and then finished loading her bags while casually talking on the phone.
I left there feeling so sad that it didn’t occur to this mother to be more careful with how she dressed her child before taking him/her out into the freezing weather. Dan l’kaf zechus? I didn’t see any possible logical explanation for it, no matter how I tried, other than neglect or carelessness.
Could this very young baby have pulled off their socks, removed their leggings/pants, and unbuttoned their jacket? Not at all likely, more like impossible. Hashem should watch over those who are helpless… |
How do you know it wasn’t an emergency? Maybe she just got a devastating diagnosis or was told a child needs medical tests, or got an emergency call from a doctor. Maybe she has a family member in the hospital. Maybe her husband just lost his job and she was speaking to someone who could help.
Your judgement really really shocks me
If that baby needed you as a Mom Hashem would’ve given that baby to you. The baby was given to this mom and she gets the chance to be the mom. Obviously if there is something incredibly dangerous you intervene (kids left alone, etc) but you don’t agree with moms judgement about the cold?? Sheesh. Who says you are right and she is wrong.
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kenz
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Today at 9:03 am
| Ema of 5 wrote: | She said she went over to OFFER help, but this is what she wrote she said.
I interrupted her phone conversation and gently suggested the baby needed to be wearing socks and not have her legs exposed in below freezing weather, as I felt that was the most pressing issue.
Offering to help doesn’t need to come with verbal judgement. |
I hear.
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amother
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Today at 9:42 am
| amother cornflower wrote: | Wel it doesn't sound like your at all aware of your kids emotional health.
Nowhere did I say I let my kids do what they want.
I feel sorry for your kids maybe that you force them to do homework, I don't force it. They need to learn consequences on their own.
And I have a bedtime for them but not forcing it on them, they are humans with feelings and needs just like you.
And yes your kid can get traumatized from being forced to wear a coat. |
I more strongly encourage my children to do their homework than to wear a coat. That’s because I think doing homework is more important than wearing a coat. This all depends on the parents value system. Each parent decides how they raise their children and what are the important values in the house. The idea to wear a coat and bundle up for a few minutes outside is cultural. Since I was young, I never like bringing a jacket everywhere I went. I’d prefer to be cold than to carry extra things and I find bundling to be extremely uncomfortable. I’d much prefer the discomfort of the cold to the discomfort of the extra layers. Had my parents forced me to wear an itchy hat or coat, I would’ve been worse off than going out in the refreshing air the way I liked it. Calling it abusive is so wrong. It’s more about your own belief than actual danger.
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amother
Eggshell
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Today at 9:44 am
I think over bundling for the cold is a Jewish thing.
There’s a typical stereotype that Jewish mothers always think their kids are cold or hungry.
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amother
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Today at 9:46 am
| amother Eggshell wrote: | I think over bundling for the cold is a Jewish thing.
There’s a typical stereotype that Jewish mothers always think their kids are cold or hungry. |
Is it also a Jewish thing to judge other mothers for the way they choose to parent?
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chestnut
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Today at 9:57 am
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For anyone saying 30s isn't terribly cold, were you outside today yet in NYC and I'm guessing in NJ is the same? I was walking, dressed warm, and still felt cold
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amother
NeonPink
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Today at 9:58 am
Skipping 5 pages.
Was the baby crying? Ime if a baby is uncomfortable, he cries.
If not, op was projecting. She was cold so she assumed the baby would be too.
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