Healthy teen can't get through fast

amother

↑ Stonewash ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 8:33 am

amother Impatiens wrote:

I’m such a bad faster even with all the prep everyone mentioned and taking slow release pills I still find it murder. I didn’t fast in a while and did shiurim this yk for preg issues but I seriously dread fast days all year and makes it so hard to see that most people really don’t find it a big deal and managed really well. It was always hard even as a teen. People who fast well don’t get how hard it is

Did you try IV drip? I heard about it this year and wonder if it helps. It's a lot of money but maybe worth it at least for yk.

amother

↑ IndianRed

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 8:35 am

amother Stonewash wrote:

Ok so I was waiting for someone to say this.

I have a child that age also a terrible faster.
She was laying flat all day and said getting up makes her faint.

She is more anxious type but it is hard to discern whether it is pure anxiety or she's really just not fasting well.

So let's say anxiety is the case what can one do? That's why we have a Torah and we ask a rav.

A person is not allowed to sign off a child as just anxious and decide it is ok for them to fast. I don't think the Torah says if its anxiety they can't break the fast.
Therefore we treat it as if it wasn't anxiety.

I kept telling her I'm going to ask if you can break the fast.
She said no wait wait if I sleep I can make it if I lay down I can make it.

And she bh made it but it is hard to witness a child so not well and pale all of yt. It was hard to focus in shul because I was afraid she's home alone and I didn't know how she's feeling.

She told me she forgot to hydrate well but regardless I think that for the next fast I am going to do the IV drip for her or at least a slow release pill that I heard about this yt.

I think it matters because they can get treatment in advance to help get through it and you treat it differently. You need very different tools if it’s anxiety versus a sugar issue.

amother

DarkOrange

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 9:01 am

amother OP wrote:

DS is a healthy 15-year-old who can't seem to get through a fast day. For the first two years he did fine, but on 17 Tammuz after the fast ended, he couldn't even get off the couch to break his fast. He was lying there pale and uanble to talk or move. I brought him some water, a pudding to bring up his blood sugar, some pretzels to bring up his blood pressure, some juice, etc. Eventually he came to and within a short time was completely back to himself. Afterwards he said he felt like he was going to die and for sure would have fainted had he not been on the couch lying down.

On Tisha B'Av the same thing happened but before the fast ended. There were still a few hours to go when he said he felt like he was going to faint. We called a posek and he said not to wait until he faints and he should break his fast right away.

Tzom Gedalya he was fine. Maybe because it was after a three-day yom tov.

On Yom Kippur he was fine at first, but in the afternoon he again felt horrible. He was dizzy and weak and felt his heart beating very hard and said he felt like he was in danger. He looked horrible and could barely get his head off the pillow. We asked a rav and he said he should start drinking shiurim. That held him through until the fast ended. Once he made havdala and ate and drank, he was back to himself.

Does this sound normal? The first time, I just thought whatever, hard fast. On Tisha B'Av I thought he's just not a great faster. But a healthy teen not able to get through Yom Kippur? Do you think this should be checked out by a doctor? I have some other kids who aren't great fasters, but none of them have had to drink shiurim on Yom Kippur.

As someone who is a terrible faster, speak to your rav about the following. My body cannot handle tisha bav after 17 tammuz, nor Yom Kippur after tzom gedalia. I have specific instructions from my rav not to fast those earlier fasts and save my energy for TB and YK. I have a long history with dehydration. We don't know where it comes from but it's a fact. Wishing him much strength.

↑ tf ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:01 am

amother Lightblue wrote:

The throwing up after fasting comes from a build up of stomach acid. Too much acid causes nausea and if you don’t neutralize it in time you throw it up.
You can try milk pretzels rice cakes tums etc to neutralize the acid. Sometimes throwing up is the best solution because it gets rid of the acid fast so you can eat and drink normally again.

Build up of acid in the stomach comes from sugar and has nothing to do with fasting. It's possible that fasting makes it worse. This can be dealt with proactively with avoiding sugar or it can be dealt with reactively with treatment once the acid is already building up. It's up to the person to decide which way to go. Of course, prevention is the healthier way for numerous reasons.

amother

Foxglove

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:06 am

Sounds like me I wld black out in my 20s and when I was a teen I wldnt be able to get off the floor. The anxiety attacks are real cuz you feel like you’re dying and throwing up acid I tried iv drips made it worse. I just do shiurim to help me get through like everyone else. My blood sugar drops too low to go without eating every 1-2 hours during the year and I’m very thin.

amother

Obsidian

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:12 am

tf wrote:

What is the treatment
I felt nauseous, I thought its dehydration?

giftedmom ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:21 am

amother OP wrote:

Ask a Sheila about him fasting on 17 Tammuz and tsam gedalya. It takes 30 days to recover from a fast and they might make it impossible for him to fast on the major fast days.

↑ giftedmom ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:29 am

amother Powderblue wrote:

My daughter was like that. She was too weak and nauseous to even eat anything after the fast.
I did take her to the doctor when she was still bedridden the day after Yom Kippur one year
Turns out she was very low in iron and vitamin D which made her very weak.
We were told that she shouldn’t fast on the small fasts. A few times she fasted till chatzos but still threw up after she broke the fast.
Now she knows that on Yom Kippur and Tisha B’Av she has to spend most of the day in bed.
Of course she has to eat and drink well before the fast and take vitamins starting a few days before.
Even with all the preparation, she almost fainted while davening mincha at home so she was back in bed until the end even though she planned on going for neilah.
I know that she has not been taking her iron pills regularly lately so that could be the reason why yesterday was so hard.

Get her spatone iron water and make sure she eats lots of red meat and chicken soup etc. the body doesn’t absorb iron pills so well.

amother

Teal

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:36 am

amother Aqua wrote:

I have one child who is a terrible faster. However it does help somewhat to prepare beforehand. Gatorade/Powerade and pretzels before the fast (the salt helps to increase the hydration). Toward the end of the fast she gets nauseous (she used to throw up but this has gotten better) so she just sits on the couch and relaxes till it's over.
I try to have a can of cold ginger ale for her in the fridge (Seagram's works best, it's made with real ginger, not artificial) for her to sip till she gets her strength back a bit before eating after the fast.

I broke my fast one year with ginger ale and I threw up the worst in my life. The only thing I can handle are frozen berries to suck on. Anything else makes me throw up. Just fyi for anyone considering ginger ale - didn’t work for me

amother

↑ Lightblue

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 10:52 am

tf wrote:

Of course it’s from fasting. Perhaps it only happens to someone already prone to acid. Its common in my family. We all have to be careful how we break our fast. Throwing up after a fast comes from not getting rid of the acid before eating normally.

If you feel nauseous you know you have acid to work on. Drink alkaline water. Milk. Tums.
Eat rice cakes. Plain bread. Pretzels. To soak up the acid.
Avoid sugar and acidic fruits.

amother

↑ Stonewash

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 12:18 pm

amother IndianRed wrote:

I think it matters because they can get treatment in advance to help get through it and you treat it differently. You need very different tools if it’s anxiety versus a sugar issue.

Which treatment?

If you mean therapy it is a long road and the teen has to be willing to go down that route and then it has to help when they are really fasting hard.

If you mean meds there's nothing fast acting that helps for 24 hours straight and I'm sure you don't mean that we all need to put our children on meds because they should be able to fast while it doesn't guarantee they will be able to fast better.

amother

Tomato ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 12:49 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

The answer is anxiety needs to be dealt with. Today it’s fasting, tomorrow it’s something else. Untreated anxiety just spirals and manifests in different ways with time. It needs to be taken seriously.