Healthy teen can't get through fast

amother

OP ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 3:44 am

DS is a healthy 15-year-old who can't seem to get through a fast day. For the first two years he did fine, but on 17 Tammuz after the fast ended, he couldn't even get off the couch to break his fast. He was lying there pale and uanble to talk or move. I brought him some water, a pudding to bring up his blood sugar, some pretzels to bring up his blood pressure, some juice, etc. Eventually he came to and within a short time was completely back to himself. Afterwards he said he felt like he was going to die and for sure would have fainted had he not been on the couch lying down.

On Tisha B'Av the same thing happened but before the fast ended. There were still a few hours to go when he said he felt like he was going to faint. We called a posek and he said not to wait until he faints and he should break his fast right away.

Tzom Gedalya he was fine. Maybe because it was after a three-day yom tov.

On Yom Kippur he was fine at first, but in the afternoon he again felt horrible. He was dizzy and weak and felt his heart beating very hard and said he felt like he was in danger. He looked horrible and could barely get his head off the pillow. We asked a rav and he said he should start drinking shiurim. That held him through until the fast ended. Once he made havdala and ate and drank, he was back to himself.

Does this sound normal? The first time, I just thought whatever, hard fast. On Tisha B'Av I thought he's just not a great faster. But a healthy teen not able to get through Yom Kippur? Do you think this should be checked out by a doctor? I have some other kids who aren't great fasters, but none of them have had to drink shiurim on Yom Kippur.

amother

Starflower

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 3:52 am

First off, I totally would have him checked out.

Then, when all comes back ok, he shouldn't fast tzom gedalia or 17 tammuz.

It's just 6 days before yom kippur. His body night not have recovered sufficiently.

There are vitamins and stuff to take and do to have an easier day.

amother

Springgreen

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 3:57 am

While I would get a checkup at the doctor to see if maybe he has low blood sugar or dips easily, honestly some people are just awful fasters.
I am one of them. Ever since I started fasting I would get faint. When I was a teen I would feel dizzy and throw up many years. My mom would hand me a candy at shul to suck (so no one saw). But she said I looked like I was about to faint and I was dizzy. I then sometimes later went to bathroom and took a bit of water with my hand from the sink.
I am small (even after a few kids!) And still a terrible faster.
I don't fast anything but YK and Tisha Baav. Even if not pregnant or nursing- I just can't do it.
What worked for me is drinking a ton starting a few days before YK. I don't fast tzom gedalia (maybe to chatzos) because it will impair my ability to fast YK. No soda or juice either. I drink water and electrolyte drinks. I didn't find Gatorade to help as much as one of the fancier ones that have tons of "other stuff". But I start prepping early.
If He can tolerate coconut water, I heard some people drink that as well (maybe instead of the electrolytes?) But I couldn't tolerate the taste and it made me want to throw up.
Even with my preps I didn't go to shul and watched my kids at home from the couch instead of bringing them to shul groups. And I took a nap. Just to survive the day without breaking it. I was told better to sleep through YK than break the fast.

Being a healthy teen means nothing with YK. Some people can't fast.

ora_43

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 4:18 am

With apologies for asking the obvious, is he preparing well? How much is he drinking in the 1-2 days before the fast, is he drinking slowly (and taking in sugar and salt to go with the water) vs chugging a lot of water right before, etc.

Is there any medicine/substance he normally takes, but doesn't on YK? Eg he's on ADHD meds, he normally drinks 4 cups of coffee a day, he smokes.

I do think it's worth looking into. It sounds like dehydration, which if he's preparing well could mean he needs more water than most people, which is something worth checking out.

If there's nothing wrong, I'd have him prep for fasts by drinking sports drinks in addition to water (better for electrolyte balance which can help avoid dehydration).

amother

Viola

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 4:27 am

Did he prepare properly for the fast? Having enough carbohydrate like potatoes and sweet potatoes, fruit like grapes, drinks like powerade. Just drinking water isn't sufficient.

Also when he breaks his fast start with fruit, like grapes or melon, and a little at a time. You need to elevate his blood sugar slowly. A lot of sugar will cause it to spike up and then make him feel faint or sick.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 4:39 am

Thanks for all the replies. He told me that for Tisha B'Av he didn't prepare well enough, but this time he did. He ate and drank well for a few days before. He's not on any meds and doesn't smoke BH. He does drink coffee--not sure how much, but that is worth exploring.

I think I'll schedule a phone appointment with the pediatrician just to run it by her and see if she wants to run any tests. I'm not concerned about any major problem because he's fine when he's not fasting, though he did tell me last night that sometimes he suddenly gets dizzy and has to sit down until it passes. Maybe he has mild POTS or orthostatic hypotension that's aggravated by dehydration.

tf ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 5:13 am

Drinking water flushes the system fast, so if this is the way he prepared, he will need to change it to drinking water with something in it, like lemon juice, salt tea, clear soup etc. He might also need more salt to retain the water better. Only for seudas hamafsekes it's not a good idea to have salt because it can make thirst, but definitely do for quite a few days in advance of the fast, like 4-5 days.

NotInNJMommy

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 5:17 am

There are also shiurim permitted for a reason. On top of all the suggestions above, for YK he may want to speak to a rav who is understanding and knowledgable to understand how and when he may or even should do shiurim (or even break the fast)—he may not or even should not wait until he feels “in danger”, especially given that this is a pattern for him.

Also a rov may tell him to not fast on Tzom Gedaliah in order to be able to fast on YK (which is a real consideration in halachah).

amother

Myrtle

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 7:27 am

My DH was always a terrible faster. He would throw up every single fast without fail for years. Two years ago he started prepping 3 days in advance drinking alot of water and coconut water. During the fast he dry swallows a Tylenol+Caffeine pill which would really help also if he's a coffee drinker. Total game changer, now he has more energy than me on fast days. He. Ever throws up, he took the kids on a walk, he built the Sukkah immediately after. BH all this preps made him from a horrible faster to amazing faster.

amother

Aqua

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 7:34 am

I have one child who is a terrible faster. However it does help somewhat to prepare beforehand. Gatorade/Powerade and pretzels before the fast (the salt helps to increase the hydration). Toward the end of the fast she gets nauseous (she used to throw up but this has gotten better) so she just sits on the couch and relaxes till it's over.
I try to have a can of cold ginger ale for her in the fridge (Seagram's works best, it's made with real ginger, not artificial) for her to sip till she gets her strength back a bit before eating after the fast.

amother

Powderblue ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 7:56 am

My daughter was like that. She was too weak and nauseous to even eat anything after the fast.
I did take her to the doctor when she was still bedridden the day after Yom Kippur one year
Turns out she was very low in iron and vitamin D which made her very weak.
We were told that she shouldn’t fast on the small fasts. A few times she fasted till chatzos but still threw up after she broke the fast.
Now she knows that on Yom Kippur and Tisha B’Av she has to spend most of the day in bed.
Of course she has to eat and drink well before the fast and take vitamins starting a few days before.
Even with all the preparation, she almost fainted while davening mincha at home so she was back in bed until the end even though she planned on going for neilah.
I know that she has not been taking her iron pills regularly lately so that could be the reason why yesterday was so hard.

amother

Grape

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 8:08 am

I have a family member that can't fast because their blood sugar drops way too low it's dangerous. They do shiurim.
But before they knew about the issue and tried to fast they felt similar. They were diagnosed with Hypoglycemia.
It's worth running by with a doctor to rule out any medical issues.

amother

Stonewash ↓

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 8:24 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

Are you sure it’s not a panic attack?

Ok so I was waiting for someone to say this.

I have a child that age also a terrible faster.
She was laying flat all day and said getting up makes her faint.

She is more anxious type but it is hard to discern whether it is pure anxiety or she's really just not fasting well.

So let's say anxiety is the case what can one do? That's why we have a Torah and we ask a rav.

A person is not allowed to sign off a child as just anxious and decide it is ok for them to fast. I don't think the Torah says if its anxiety they can't break the fast.
Therefore we treat it as if it wasn't anxiety.

I kept telling her I'm going to ask if you can break the fast.
She said no wait wait if I sleep I can make it if I lay down I can make it.

And she bh made it but it is hard to witness a child so not well and pale all of yt. It was hard to focus in shul because I was afraid she's home alone and I didn't know how she's feeling.

She told me she forgot to hydrate well but regardless I think that for the next fast I am going to do the IV drip for her or at least a slow release pill that I heard about this yt.

amother

Impatiens

Sun, Oct 13 2024, 8:31 am

I’m such a bad faster even with all the prep everyone mentioned and taking slow release pills I still find it murder. I didn’t fast in a while and did shiurim this yk for preg issues but I seriously dread fast days all year and makes it so hard to see that most people really don’t find it a big deal and managed really well. It was always hard even as a teen. People who fast well don’t get how hard it is