Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

↑ Gebentched1 ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:26 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

Ppl contribute to their children's schools!
In Lakewood, there are what, 50-80 elementary schools?
Schools should accept some gevirim, they eill give money.

People here are simultaneously knocking schools that try to "cozy up to the rich" so that they could have enough money not to raise tuition and also demanding that the rich people pay for everyone's tuition...

So schools should accept students (families) based on income status and not merit?

There's already major issues with kids being unable to get into schools, now add in another factor like Financials to keep stacking the deck against middle class families?

(btw I don't totally disagree with you, just pointing out a small flaw with your solution)

Last edited by Gebentched1 on Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ RosePink ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:30 pm

amother OP wrote:

Gevirim are always going to be part of the solution but they will never be the full solution for a multitude of reasons. The only feasible solution I see is for the community as a whole to stop living at a standard comparable to the top 10%-20% of the non Jewish world and start living closer to the average non Jewish middle to lower middle class standard, freeing up money for tuition, while simultaneously urging those few who continue to live at a higher standard and can afford to do so to contribute more toward communal chinuch funds.

Agree.
Baltimore just gave out a tuition refund, wasn’t big but it was nice.
Gevirim shouldn’t be told where to give money, that’s a great way to turn people off from giving.
I wonder how many schools that are having issues signed up with Torah umesorah to raise the teachers pay. I’m not exactly sure how it works, but I think the schools had to raise most of the money and that’s the big issue. The schools that didn’t sign up for the program also raised the salaries by a substantial amount I think.

↑ Gebentched1 ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 6:40 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

By using expensive community resources like large shul buildings, elaborate mikvahs, or costly services like Hatzalah without paying a proportionate amount to your use, you effectively DO expect it.

Maybe she doesn't "expect" it, but she sure has the luxury of not worrying about these things (mikvah, hatzalah, etc) since someone else took already care of funding it.

And tbh we all appreciate and enjoy this luxury. Now should it extend to ALL necessities like Jewish education? That's the question here.

↑ joker

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 7:43 pm

No one wants to listen to Rabbanim but everything is their problem 😂😂😂
Rabbanim provide a lot of guidance to wealthy people that ask and one of the main points is that the person should give to the causes that appeal to them. That's the halach a I know personally given to people. I know it's disappointing but paying your child's tuition bill doesn't necessarily come before ask other equally worthy causes 😜😜😜but it's cute how everyone is so fast to spend others money

amother

↑ Bottlebrush ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 8:22 pm

amother Gold wrote:

Schools need to be more transparent.
We have the head of my kids school who takes in a high enough salary to live in a home worth millions. Travel. Drives a car much newer than mine.
And the school hired his wife to run a program definitely not qualified for.
Let's just be polite and say she isn't trained in what she supposedly does. But gets a fancy salary.

The school hires a LOT of relatives of current teachers/staff/admin.

I wish schools would be more transparent about their costs.
Are they willing to use a professional accountant to audit the books and see how they can save?
I know someone who offered their services for free to help the school out and they refused. So now they pay a staff member for it.
Are they getting multiple bids for different jobs?

I also believe families wanting discounts should show their expenses/income/taxes. We do.

The issue is that there are good apples and bad apples.
I have relatives who own schools and they absolutely have accountants auditing them.
But then again they are honest and their non profit is filed under a school and not a conegration so their financials are public records.

If we can just start with our schools filing correctly ( as they legally are required)
We don’t need them to open their books since they will be public records

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 9:30 pm

Gebentched1 wrote:

I didn’t read the thread or what you are responding to, but yes. A combination of both. Most public schools require tuition to be paid in order to attend. There is a set aside fund for scholarships or partial scholarships for kids who can get in on merit but cannot afford the tuition. But here in most cases the majority of the school is not paying tuition or full tuition and it’s on other parents or members of the community to support them, even if they are unable or unwilling to. So I think it’s perfectly reasonable for a school to say if you cannot affford it, you cannot attend. They are not made of money to give everyone a free ride, and it’s at someone else’s expense

amother

↑ Pistachio

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 9:38 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

IOW you do not believe that Jewish education is a communal obligation and inherent right of a Jewish child, you consider it a luxury and a privilege and don't mind if 25%-50% of Jewish children have no access to it.

I hear that, but that's exactly the opposite of the lesson we taught the world. You do realize that the public education system in America today is inspired by the Jewish model of education for everyone? That before that the majority of the populace was illiterate? That Jews were called "People of the Book" partially because it was so unusual that most members of a community could read?

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 9:41 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

(since when is public school not free for students? It's funded by taxpayers?)

amother

↑ RosePink

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 9:45 pm

amother Bronze wrote:

Based on what criteria?

Number of students?

Number of teachers?

How would you get money for this fund and enforce collection?

Would it be a flat fee or would it be a percentage of income?

Would you count assets?

Would number of children be relevant?

The school would submit to the org their tuition wishes, the org would set prices accordingly.
How is tuition set when parents pay each school? It’s not much different.
Everything contributes to the cost.
It would work if people would allow it to.

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 10:00 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

Um what??? Which country is this? Definitely not in the US where public school is free.

Which universe do you live in that the majority of the students are not paying tuition??? Never heard that one before.

amother

Anemone

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 10:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

The only feasible solution I see is for the community as a whole to stop living at a standard comparable to the top 10%-20% of the non Jewish world and start living closer to the average non Jewish middle to lower middle class standard, freeing up money for tuition, while simultaneously urging those few who continue to live at a higher standard and can afford to do so to contribute more toward communal chinuch funds.

This. Is it so embarrassing to be middle class?

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 11:02 pm

Maybe it's time we copied the public school model, which is the way it was done for some time in Europe, with a central communal/Kehilla fund.

This communal fund supports ALL schools.

And EVERYONE must pay a monthly/annual "tax" towards that fund, regardless of life stage or family size. While not perfect, here's what this accomplishes:

1. Instead of being forced to pay impossible tuition fees during what are arguably the most expensive years of our lives, parents pay it out over their entire adult life. Yes, this means they're never done paying tuition, but in our world, are we ever done supporting our children/grandchildren anyways? And it will be a token amount when spread so far instead of being paid only during the 13 years your child is in school.

2. No more issues with tuition and family size as was brought up so many times in this thread. It won't be a factor at all, as everyone pays the same amount.

3. Forced transparency from the schools. Everyone gets what they need to pay their teachers and staff and maintain their building and done. There's no pocketing half a million a year and then burdening your choking parent body with higher tuition costs each year.

Obviously something like this will take tremendous effort to get off the ground, and of course there are so many holes to fix, but hey, it works for the PS system. Maybe we have something to learn from them.

amother

↑ Bronze

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 9:31 am

amother Maroon wrote:

This would never work and could never be implemented.

If you are comparing it to the "old country" in the 19th century or before, there was one school and probably one synagogue and it was funded by the people of that small united community.

If you are comparing it to public schools, they are funded by mandatory taxes which have complicated ways of calculating amounts due and have the ability to enforce through various legal measures including prison and foreclosure. Not to mention that there is one public school system that is controlled by one school district for each municipality and to a great extent no choice as to where to send your child.

I was scanning the thread this morning on a imamother seeking input on a RWMO school and the nuances in terms of recommendations. Not calling out this as being a wrong thing but just pointing out how specific many people are in terms of exactly what criteria the school must be and I can't imagine this mindset would accept a one size fits all school.