S/o what changed since the 80’s that makes life so expensive

NewStart

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:39 pm

I’ve been reading my kids books from the 1970s and 1980s and yes things were so much simpler then. It was normal to have mismatched furniture, parties were a homemade cake and some streamers taped to the bushes, little kids wore whatever, going away internationally happened once in my childhood and I was raised upper middle class. People owned so much less stuff- a couple of Shabbos dresses and couple of weekday outfits. People generally had old cars- a new car was a huge deal and only for the very rich. People also didn’t move- they bought a house and that was that for 20-30+ years.
We have all become more wasteful with expectations for new and perfect and upgrades. It’s gross. The biggest wastes are clothes and home furnishing upgrades. So unnecessary.

In response to the OP, I have no issue with older women having babies. If you can and want to, go for it.

Wolfsbane

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:40 pm

There has been lifestyle creep, but I don't think it's at the core of the problem. Just look at how expensive housing is. Or health insurance. Food, tuition. You can buy cheaper t-shirts, but that still won't make $16,000+ per kid per year on tuition and health insurance super affordable.

↑ GLUE ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:43 pm

amother Jasmine wrote:

In the 1980s someone who lived a 2000 sf home had 10 outfits and 5 pairs of shoes in the closet, cake and nosh and meat for shabbos was considered rich. Now we collect money for anyone wh has less than this. The standard have gone up. I bh still have grandparents and I see how they live and it’s very different than our generation even though they are not poor.

I remember when outfits cost over $100 that is for the weekday, so nobody had a lot.
Once the price dropped to about $10-20 a shirt suddenly closets filled up with clothes.

The price of meat was high now it's cheaper to serve my kids roast for supper then pizza.
I don't know what you are talking about, we had meat every Shabbos growing up. From conversations with my friends that was not unusual.

kids brought in lots of nosh to school then, just like now.

PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:48 pm

amother Brown wrote:

Do we though? We have more abilities to keep things more meticulously. Unlike the post Holocaust generation that was just trying to survive and start over. What excuses do we have for not keeping the Torah properly the way it’s meant to be kept? What do you think money is meant for? We are in this world to keep the Torah and money is just a tool to help us keep it. We use the money to do more mitzvohs. Our goal isn’t to die with as many bags of cash as possible. I think you lost the plot.

The 80s wasn't the post-Holocaust generation. The 60s was.

amother

Cobalt ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:50 pm

Completely agree with op about giving tzedakah to kollel families. When the middle working class is drowning the way it is these days, it makes no sense for communal funds to be going to fund kollelim.

We need all able bodied people to be working to pay their family’s bills, and tzedakah money should go to those who are physically unable to work or who are working as hard as they can but still can’t cover their bills. There is a huge number of people in that last category who are not being helped at all.

amother

Firebrick ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

My main point seems to have been lost on most people. As a community we have shifted to being much more “farfrumpt” and we waste money on “necessities” that have nothing to do with Halacha.

That’s not the problem.
The problem is that it’s become the norm to buy and do things that are very expensive.
One home isn’t enough anymore. You need to own a summer home too, or a summer rental which cots a fortune.
Mid winter break isn’t a break to relax and take a trip to the museum, you have to fly somewhere far and ski.
Chol Hamo’ed trips have to be at least 500 miles away and involve hotel and airfare. An amusement park isn’t enough.
Every simcha including an upsheren and an important wedding anniversary require the services of a skilled party planner.
Everyone has to drive a late model car.
Everyone married more than ten years has to have an eternity band.
There are no more synthetic wigs that come in a box.
There’s more but I’m getting tired.
None of this is part of our religion.

amother

↑ Cobalt

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:58 pm

amother Firebrick wrote:

What community are you talking about? I don’t know anyone except very wealthy business owners with a summer home.

We make choices as to whether we partake in these norms. I don’t partake in any of these except for having a real hair wig, and I’m the norm in Lakewood.

amother

Currant ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:01 pm

amother OP wrote:

My main point seems to have been lost on most people. As a community we have shifted to being much more “farfrumpt” and we waste money on “necessities” that have nothing to do with Halacha.

I agree with you, OP, and get what you're saying. It's comical the number of things people insist are "needs," like certain kinds of brands or vacations.

amother

↑ Currant

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:02 pm

amother Brown wrote:

Most of us are just trying to scrape by and deal with the inflation of standards around us, not trying to "die with bags of cash."

amother

↑ Hydrangea ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:06 pm

GLUE wrote:

In around 2000 a lady wrote in a London rag, that the reason why millennials are not buying houses is because they are spending to much money on avocado toast.
She wrote a whole list on what she thought millennials were wasting there money on, then a whole list on the things she used her money on when she was that age.
It took three seconds(if that long)for people to rip apart her list.
some examples:
Did not vacation in Spain in the winter, vacationed at the sea in the summer
Did not have unlimited Netflix, went to the theater every week
A few more things.
Yet if you compare what she spend in the 1950 on her extra's and what millennials were spending on their extra's in 2000, the prices were about the same(after inflation) it was just different stuff so it looked like they were being spend without a plan.

The biggest difference in 1950 vs. 2000 was the price of houses.

As Fox pointed out up-thread live was always expensive.
I remember my mother talking about people who could not paint the walls of their house because of tuition. This was in the 1980's.

But now people won't even move into an apartment without painting it no matrer their income level. Apparently it's unheard of not to get fresh paint before you move in somewhere.

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Cobalt wrote:

Is your husband working

out-of-towner

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:08 pm

NewStart wrote:

Clothing and furniture might have been more expensive, but to be fair they did last longer.

I have a beautiful jacket from a great grandparent that I didn't know (I'm a child of the 90s) that is in pristine condition decades later. That wouldn't happen nowdays.

amother

↑ Firebrick

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:31 pm

amother Cobalt wrote:

We do make our own decisions. We don’t all buy into the stuff I listed. I was showing op that her list of things you “need” which were all somehow connected to being religious, weren’t the luxuries everyone needs to have. A lot of people opt out of those things too. Being frum isn’t the reason for financial pressure.

amother

Marigold

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 5:34 pm

The lettuce is an actual change. In the 80's, farmers were still using DDT on produce. There were way less bugs, and less of a need for separate produce and/or megs checking.

80's styles had more available tznius tops. You could walk into Sears and get shirts wiith crew necks that covered collar bones, and tops were nice and loose. Skirts were a royal pain, and if we had a local frum clothes store or a man with a truck, we would have paid to buy from it.

Fads in general were cheaper, but people were still buying Champion sweatshirts as a thing, and Benetton. Everyone I know was in one extracurricular, sometimes two but rarely. Yes, we spent more time unstructured and hanging out outside. Once safety standards changed, it makes sense that there is more active scheduling vs everyone just being inside.

The books- that's a combination of it being easier to print books and the fact that secular books got way worse.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:06 pm

I dont know about in the US but from what I heard from my inlaws living in Israel in the early 80/90 and my parents in the UK 70-90 they were doing something terribly wrong.
my inlaws were getting approx 800-900 nis per child from the government, rent in Jerusalem was $200 per month. no one had a car, the parents sent from america boxes of clothes each yr so if they bought it was minimum, at one point they were getting 7000 nis from the government monthly fpr kids, that is the equivalent of atleast 12000 nis now adays AND THEY WERE CONSIDERED POOR! mil was one of the only ones of her neighbours who worked and it was very part time. Where did that money go? they didnt have meat everyday according to what im making in israel now, working 8.5 hrs a day, to get a little bit more than what they were given- not including inflation, the government gives a shocking amount for 3 kids a total of approx 500 nis and our rent is alot higher than them but we are considered spenders and living in a spoilt generation.
I know my parents were also given a large amount from the government each month - UK still get alot of benefits, I just wonder where did there money go??? why are we working to get less than what they were GIVEN but are considered spoilt? oh and we buy our clothes, not an item of brand names, our stroller we used for 7yrs- 3 kids was not a known brand and bought for 1500 nis with the bassinet.

amother

Clematis

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:08 pm

amother Cobalt wrote:

This.

I hate when people give in to every stupid trending indulgence and pretend it’s a community wide standard and a “must” in todays society.

Sorry, but op and firebrick and anyone who thinks these lists are standard, I have news for you. They’re not.

And if you live like this and complain about tuition I have no pity for you at all.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:09 pm

amother OP wrote:

4 year olds didn’t need $60 swim coverups.
6 year olds didn’t need $100 worth of knee socks and $40 long sleeve t-shirts.
12 year olds didn’t need $60 jewish t-shirts with necklines 1/2 higher than the $12 gap tee.
14 year olds didn’t need $400 worth of stockings.
Boys didn’t need $80/hour extracurricular lessons, they could play sports for free.
Kids didn’t need $28 poorly written “jewish” books, they had a whole library of free books.
Families didn’t need to buy $15 bags of wilted bodek lettuce.
30 year old men didn’t need tens of thousands of dollars of communal kollel tzedaka a year.
40 year old women didn’t need to have babies.

I could go on for much longer but I need to get a headstart on running from the tomatoes.

What's wrong with $18 swim dresses, $12 gap t-shirts, $4.50 pantyhose, Jewish and non Jewish library books, Andy Boy romaine hearts that need to be cleaned, Hechshered Fresh Express bags of lettuce? We buy these.