Tuition Crisis- Mishpacha Magazine feature article

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:55 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Agree. As per above, the massive shift is because of the schools themselves. If you have school owners appearing to live the high life, with grand buildings, large fundraising amounts and an excess of extra curricular activities, isn't it understandable that it affects people's attitudes towards them.

To add, respect begets respect. Back in the days, the Dean, administrators, and principals respected the parents. Today, they act like they're doing us the biggest favor by allowing us the privilege to send our kids to their lofty schools. Such attitudes begets similar attitudes as well.

100%

It used to a genuine partnership. Somehow, it morphed into an Us vs Them which is a huge disservice to all involved.

amother

↑ Stoneblue ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:00 am

amother Maroon wrote:

100%

It used to a genuine partnership. Somehow, it morphed into an Us vs Them which is a huge disservice to all involved.

It did indeed morph into Us vs Them. But the 'somehow' is easily explained. When anyone expects you to pay the bulk of your income toward their services and berates you for just trying to live and breathe, how cannot it not become an Us vs Them scenario?

amother

Stone ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:26 am

justforfun87 wrote:

How do the Catholic schools function? I was recently sent an ad in the mail of all the private schools in Baltimore. Obviously the fancy ones are 30-40k but most of the Catholic ones were similar to Jewish schools. Is it that we don't see public school as an option?

Subsidized by the Dioces in thei parish. And right now, due to low involvement and enrollment in Church and Catholic school they're really struggling

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:29 am

amother Gold wrote:

It is super hard for us.
Lost job, medical bills, mental health issues. We were very open with the school. Showed them CC and bank account statements and that we don't make enough to cover our basic expenses (to explain: my shoes have holes. My YT purchase for myself was a bra that fit. Not a fancy one, cost $20.)

I cried to an administrator, the finance department... they were willing to delay payments 2 weeks. I had to call and beg. Again and again. One administrator was in Israel. Another on vacation. Finally towards the end of the summer (finance applications were due months before that) they gave us a discount.

Why am I treated like garbage? I am super open and transparent. School wasn't at all. For some reason so many teachers own homes, go on vacations... while I work chol hamoed and wear ripped shoes. Crying

I was with you til the teachers part. There are problems and corruption but it's definitely not the teachers

amother

↑ Stone

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:31 am

amother Fern wrote:

Your last paragraph is not true. Our parents' generation had things much, much easier financially. I look around at my friends and so few of us own houses (in our low 30's) and have no hope of ever buying. And yes we live so simply and dress our kids in hand me downs and drive old cars and don't travel or eat out and don't use doonas and don't have eternity bands etc etc.

There is this misconception that everyone is living the high life and ignoring tuition. It's a minority and not true for the majority. The financial reality now is beyond difficult and terrifying and it's very frustrating to be so misunderstood.

No lies detected. Seriously Americans have it much harder today. Those who are unaware are unaware because they come from money and live in a bubble and refuse to educate themselves

amother

Bellflower ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:37 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

"You know what, tuition is $40,000 for our kids this year, more than a third of what we're bringing in before taxes. There's no way we can pay that much. Why should we save money on a stroller? The school won't appreciate that $400 anyhow, they'll just complain that we're not paying more. Why should our kids wear uncomfortable shoes? That $50 difference won't make a dent."

Makes a lot of sense to me, actually.

When something is so far beyond your reach, fatalism sets in. And if the school is going to yell at you and threaten you anyhow, you may as well cry in a late-model Sienna instead of a clunker that might not make it home.

(Said by a mother who pushes a Graco stroller, buys Walmart shoes, doesn't go on any vacation at all, most kids don't have Shabbos shoes let alone Shabbos coats, and drives a small sedan instead of a minivan even though that means she can never take all of her kids at once)

You are so right! (Fellow Graco/Wal Mart mom here.)

When you add up how much tuition costs (it can be over 50k a year in a very low cost community) what's the point in trying to count pennies? No matter how many pennies I save, I won't cover even one's child tuition. Might as well buy the $1000 carriage (and it will last...).

amother

↑ Maroon ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:46 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

True.

This shift also breeds a disconnect between our generation and our parents'. My parents can't wrap their heads around the way my siblings and I talk about our kids' schools. In their minds, schools are sacred, untouchable and can do no wrong. After all, if you're entrusting them with your kids' chinuch, how can you possibly accuse them of anything underhanded?

If only that were still true.

amother

Caramel

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:49 am

amother OP wrote:

Just because you are a Mossad doesn’t absolve parents of their responsibility. There is no community chest that picks up the slack. They are educating your children. Sure many mosdos can be more transparent. Some can be nicer despite the stress of dealing with parents who seem to think “my kids your problem”.

But at the end of the day schools are not making it. Not the nice ones. Not the less nice ones. Not the transparent ones. Not the less transparent ones. Not the Lakewood ones. Not the out of town ones.

We as a community are not prioritizing our responsibility to our children’s chinuch. Our parents did. We are prioritizing lifestyle choices that don’t leave funds for our children’s schools. That needs to change

I don't know who we is. I pay full. My neighbors would be shocked. I'm wearing. Clothes from years ago and have all old furniture

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:17 am

amother Fern wrote:

So much baloney in the article. I an parent in one of the schools whose administrator was interviewed. He made it seem like he is so nice and kind and gracious...him and his whole team is disgusting and treats us like garbage.

My husband and I work so, so hard and such long hours 6 days a week. We live simply in a rented apartment with a 2008 car, hand me downs, no travelling/eating out etc. Unfortunately, we also have a lot of unavoidable medical expenses.

We fill out the scholarship form every year and are so honest with every detail. And while the school does give us a break (although not as much as we need) it is always with SUCH attitude and disgust and contempt like we are cockroaches who are taking advantage, and not simply a really hardworking couple that is struggling a lot. I can't even write out some of the things I was told, it's so horrible.

All the talk in the article about "treating parents nicely" yeah it's the wealthy guys. Not us. At school events and performances, the administrator goes around shaking hands and slapping on the backs all the cool wealthy guys (who don't work nearly as hard as my dh does and whose wives don't work at all) while completely ignoring people like my dh.

And no, I will never, ever, ever give them a penny after my child graduates. They have caused me so much pain. Not that I will ever be wealthy enough to make donations anyway because they make sure I do not have a penny left over to save for simchos or retirement or anything in the future.

I think you should write your experiences and send it to Mishpacha, including the horrible experiences. It needs to be published.
To treat poor people like garbage is Sdom at it's finest.

amother

↑ Brass ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:49 am

amother Hyacinth wrote:

"We come up with 40k for the seminary experience, 70k for a wedding, but we have no money for tuition. Hmmm.”

If seminaries were fair, they wouldn’t allow a girl to start unless high school tuition was paid up. Maybe more parents would be honest and find a local alternative that isn’t so expensive.

Not everyone has local options. If you don't qualify for FAFSA chu"l seminaries might still strain the budget.

amother

↑ Eggshell ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:53 am

amother Brass wrote:

Not everyone has local options. If you don't qualify for FAFSA chu"l seminaries might still strain the budget.

This is true. And also, I don’t like how everyone picks seminary as the unnecessary expenditure and ignores the amount it costs to send boys to Israel for several years.

amother

↑ Brass

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:57 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

This is true. And also, I don’t like how everyone picks seminary as the unnecessary expenditure and ignores the amount it costs to send boys to Israel for several years.

Everyone is picking seminary in ISRAEL as the unnecessary expenditure. Seminary anywhere can be a strain. But it is valuable.
as for the boys, also, you're going to be sending them somewhere for several years. And that's important too.

amother

↑ Eggshell ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:00 am

amother Brass wrote:

If frum families can’t afford to pay their bills with both parents working full time unless they’re blessed by God with above average wealth then why are we having either gender spend years learning instead of working as adults? We need more money in our families. it may not make sense anymore for able bodied men to be learning instead of working before getting married.

PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:20 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

At what age would you say they should stop? And would this mean going straight to college at 18? How cheap are the yeshivos that offer degree options? Because it would be very sad if 18 year olds go to institutions that don't have a strong learning component and lose the opportunity to do serious learning, I.e 2 full sedarim a day as young adults.

notshanarishona

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:30 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

This is true. And also, I don’t like how everyone picks seminary as the unnecessary expenditure and ignores the amount it costs to send boys to Israel for several years.

In my experience (with right wing boys butay medresh), parents are paying for 4 years what 1 year in seminary cost. Not all are the same but this is what I have seen in at least 4 different places.

amother

↑ Eggshell ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:27 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I find elementary girl schools shutting down for lack of funds to be sadder. Also, middle class hard working families being harangued by desperate schools and made miserable to provide funds that it’s not reasonable to expect them to be able to provide.

We need to make some big changes as a society because the financial situation today is not at all sustainable.

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:32 am

amother Fern wrote:

Can someone please explain this sentence?

Around 30 to 35 years ago, tuition in town was approximately $3,500 to $5,000 per child (depending on the school). I remember this vividly because I was a teenager then. That's a lot of money.

Did people have smaller families? Did everyone make so so much that they were easily able to afford this? I mean, even six children in school would be $21,000 (on the cheaper end). How much money were people making that this was affordable?

I don't know because my husband and I both come from tiny families, and I remember that tuition was a huge struggle for both sets of parents. And they had good, middle income jobs. Both parents worked.

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:36 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

The girls schools you are referencing are Chasidish, and they already go to work young, so not sure how this solution will help...

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:50 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Genuine hug. Impossible situation.
We needed to daven for wisdom and leadership.