Do you give money to your son in Beis Medrash?

amother

↑ Whitesmoke

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 8:23 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is the Bais Medrash his Rebbe recommended for him. We were under the impression that tuition was cheaper than high school but we were wrong. The crowd is not ritzy at all. I'm starting to wonder if we were taken advantage of. It sounds like noone is paying this much tuition (it's a dorm, not a dirah).

It sounds like here or in real life? Everyone in my immediate circle pays full +. We chip in to cover a reduced rate for a sibling in kodesh.

Some bm use fafsa money ( like bmg). My parents didn’t qualify which is why my brothers went elsewhere.

Tuition is not your son’s expense. You had to do more research and planning …

amother

↑ Antiquewhite ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

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I think this is the crux of the issue. My parents are comfortable but they sent my brother to a cheaper (very good but less frills yeshiva) because they didn’t want him with the ritsy crowd.

Realistically, this yeshiva might attract a more comfortable crowd (usually half is comfortable and half is quite poor on scholarship with little in the middle). So yes his friends may have much more leeway with spending. Most boys who have to think about money don’t go to camp as campers at 18…

I think there’s a balance. You should see how much it would cost to cover needs for the month and give him that and encourage him to figure out the rest.

His friends may also get car rentals and trips bein hazmanim. And lots of spending money in Israel etc etc. they may just have more money.

17k+ is average for run of the mill BM. Our son is pretty simple and going to a basic place. Kids are not fancy at all. Like no cell phones. No going out to eat.

Many take fafsa.

If you don’t get it they will negotiate. Ours added 4K to what we paid last year tuition to cover the room and board. They were really nice about it. Typically we paid full but that was too much for us.

I’m curious about cheaper yeshivas.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 8:58 pm

Never mind then, I give up! Some of you say it's normal price, some of you say it's too much. I guess I'll never know. They asked us to pay blank amount and we said yes b/c we generally pay full tuition for schools. Maybe that was an unintelligent move . . .
We left the research up to his Rebbe b/c our city didn't have an option for him. You're all right, we didn't do enough on our part. But we wanted him to end up in the right place learning-wise, and we could not have found the right place the way his Rebbe could.
Lesson Learned!! Thank you for your repsonses!

amother

↑ Antiquewhite ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 10:18 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don’t think you did anything wrong you should beat yourself over.

You sent your son to a yeshiva you were advised was the best for him.

You are working hard to pay tuition for his learning. It’s praiseworthy.

You are trying to figure out his needs and chinuch against what you can do.

I think we are being too rough on you and you are being too tough on yourself.

Parenting in general is a hard learning curve.

↑ mom24b ↓

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:06 pm

I think the confusion is coming from ppl assuming all Bais Medrash run the same way and are on par with tuition. That is not the case at all.Most right wing yeshivish Beis Medrash in Eretz Yisroel do not have a dormitory with enormous overhead expenses, therefore tuition is much less . Boys live in apartments that are shared, the rent and utilities are split amongst them (usually btwn 6-8boys splitting it). There is no dorm counselor, some provide meals some don’t, but the Yeshiva’s overhead is minimal and therefore tuition isn’t anywhere close to $20,000. They Yeshiva’s that charge that amount are yeshivas that have a “campus” with a dormitory and fully staffed. It is run completely different. That being said you were told this kind of Beis Medrash is good for your son (which it most likely is) and therefore you are paying the price (literally ) but if it is what is best for him, as hard as it is financially it is worth it! Do you have any family members (parents, grandparents) you can ask to help out by gifting him some spending money. It sounds like he’s in a yeshiva where all his basic necessities are covered within tuition but it is true he does need some pocket money for extras and I believe majority of parents either give it to their children or find an alternative way to make sure their kids have what they needed- pocket money included…. I know someone who refinanced their house, and someone who took out gemachs to be able to send their kids to yeshivas and seminaries. It’s not ideal but I think the parents are happy they did and it paid off in the long run (pun intended 😉). I’m hoping you will see the benefits of the financial investment for generations to come.

Last edited by mom24b on Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Antiquewhite

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:08 pm

mom24b wrote:

I think the confusion is coming from ppl assuming all Bais Medrash run the same way and are on par with tuition. That is not the case at all.. Yagdil Torah , R Tzvi, brisker Kollel, pragers and Brisk do not have a dormitory with enormous overhead expenses, therrefore tuition is much less . Boys live in apartments that are shared, the rent and utilities are split amongst them (usually btwn 6-8boys splitting it). There is no dorm counselor, some provide meals some don’t, but the Yeshiva’s overhead is minimal and therefore tuition isn’t anywhere close to $20,000. They Yeshiva’s that charge that amount are yeshivas that have a “campus” with a dormitory and fully staffed. It is run completely different. That being said you were told this kind of Beis Medrash is good for your son (which it most likely is) and therefore you are paying the price (literally ) but if it is what is best for him, as hard as it is financially it is worth it! Do you have any family members (parents, grandparents) you can ask to help out by gifting him some spending money. It sounds like he’s in a yeshiva where all his basic necessities are covered within tuition but it is true he does need some pocket money for extras and I believe majority of parents either give it to their children or find an alternative way to make sure their kids have what they needed- pocket money included…. I know someone who refinanced their house, and someone who took out gemachs to be able to send their kids to yeshivas and seminaries. It’s not ideal but I think the parents are happy they did and it paid off in the long run (pun intended 😉). I’m hoping you will see the benefits of the financial investment for generations to come.

Aren’t the ones you mentioned in eretz yisroel
Most boys stay in America 2-4 years and the norm is to dorm

↑ mom24b

Thu, Sep 05 2024, 11:14 pm

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Aren’t the ones you mentioned in eretz yisroel
Most boys stay in America 2-4 years and the norm is to dorm

Yes I’m not sure why I thought OP son was in Israel. I honestly don’t remember what we paid for Bais Medrash in USA when my son dormed, perhaps it was around $20,000. In any event I believe parents do pay the going rate and make sure their son has pocket money. I’m not sure how they do it, but each family finds a way to make it work as it is necessary for a Beis medrash boy to have spending money. I do believe him when he says most boys have parents credit cards. I don’t think ALL do, but I’m sure some of them do…..

coloredleaves ↓

Fri, Sep 06 2024, 1:04 am

If your son is in a system where the good boys don't work side jobs (almost all systems at 20 or 21 etc) then how would he have money? We live in Passaic and are not poor but not rich and my son has only about 1000 from his bar mitzva and no other money if his own.

I don't make him use it, I actually put it aside to help pay for a ring iyH one day for a kalla, but even if I did have him use it, it wouldn't go very far. It isn't a thing in my circle to give big bra mitzvah gifts and have thousands of dollars to use for things. Some boys here and there do hustle like selling cholent in yeshiva but that's like two or three boys in a Whole high school and a certain personality. Which is fine but not most people. Camps in the summer are learning camps. Yes tuition is a lot, but if the norm you bring him up in does not facilitate earning money at those ages then it isn't fair to expect him to have his work spending money.

I think giving him a certain amount per week makes sense. Laundry, Mikva, a small snack every day or every other day, haircuts, those are things most peoples parents pay for in middle class society and if u made him work in a setting where it was frowned upon then that would cause other problems. Of course, if most of his friends do get jobs in the summer that's a different thing. But even then I can't see having him pay for his own haircuts etc... I would see his own spending money as being for more extras a like ordering in a meal or the coffee shop every day instead of once or twice a week or a nice meal on Friday.

Haircuts, Mikva small snacks is part of child rearing until they are old enough to really earn money in whatever society you are in. Most people I know (not rich- just middle class struggling pay check to pay check in a average way) do pay for their children to do those things until they are married unless they are much much older singles.

I feel like it would really breed resentment not to. And the $15 a week realistically is not making or breaking us financially. It just gives our kids a sense of security. It's like paying for their clothing and doctor appointments. You might say they have to pay themselves for a designer item or a luxury procedure but not for regular normal copays or a suit for yt or slacks for yeshiva.
I don't mean you should pay 30 $ in one shot for a Uber eats meal like wealthier kids do in some circles. I mean basics described above.

Last edited by coloredleaves on Fri, Sep 06 2024, 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Papayawhip ↓

Fri, Sep 06 2024, 6:22 am

How else did you expect him to pay for his things if you don’t give him money?
He is right that a cc makes most sense so he doesn’t have to ask you for every small thing.
You pay for his things until he has some sort of income. That’s what parents do.
It’s true that older children are more expensive to support but unless he leaves yeshiva and takes a job, there is no other option.
You can make a budget- like $100 a month or whatever you think is fair.

↑ coloredleaves

Fri, Sep 06 2024, 7:15 am

If this is the beis medrish his rebbe recommended you were correct to send him there. And 20,000 is average in many areas. My sons yeshiva bm in queens is not ritzy but 20,000 with dorming. I would never take him out if a good environment for him to save money.
Outside of lakewood and maybe some areas of Brooklyn, all tuition cost more. Like in Passaic even high school tuition without a dorm us 15,000. Im always floored when people say they pay that amount a year for two or three kids together.
You could consider asking to pay 18000 bc you can't afford any spending money and that's important for development. You can also just add the extra 1-2000 a year to your schooling cost for him in your mind so you don't resent every time he asks every wk or month.

↑ lamplighter

Fri, Sep 06 2024, 9:27 am

OP, I apologize if I came across harsh. I think what threw a lot of us off was your comment of him being 18 so why should you still have to pay for his expenses.
I understand that you weren't saying that from a place of logic, you know that he doesn't have a job that pays for things. You said it from a place of frustration around how much things cost and that even when he is an official adult the expenses aren't easing up. It's frustrating.
My parents are BT and they really struggled with this concept (and there was a learning curve that impacted some of us negatively). It's not you, it's the system, and it's a lot of money.
I wish I had more chizzuk for you.
I wish you all the nachas in the world from this child and all your others.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Sep 06 2024, 10:41 am

amother OP wrote:

I never heard of workstudy. Thanks for mentioning it.
What was the plan? The plan was that we would buy everything for him in advance - laundry detergent, snacks etc, and he would use his little bit of spending money that he has for things like mikvah, take the bus (or walk). But then he got wind that his friends are getting money from their parents for spending (if that's true).

You keep saying that you don't think it's true that his friends are getting money from their parents for spending.

Yes. It is true.

My husb grew up in a very simple home.
25 years ago, he got $80 spending $ a month, aside from what he brought in dry goods, food etc.

He chose to spend as he wished. Some boys used for food, others for laundry, or to send shirts out.

Boys probably need more than this today.

This is part of budgeting.

These boys spend their days davening/learning from 730 til after 10 pm. Some places, later.

The shtark boys are not doing side jobs. And come bein hazemanim, they deserve a break, not to be working full time, to make spending money.