DS's friend went too far--not sure how to handle this

imasinger

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:23 pm

Well, this encounter ended in a slightly better place than I had first feared.

Slightly.

Lehavdil--

Many years ago, there was a letter to Miss Manners (aka Judith Martin) asking what would be the kindest way for the letter writer to end his relationship with his girlfriend. He didn't want her to feel hurt.

Miss Manners said she would endeavor to help him find the kindest way forward, as long as he gave up on the notion of not saying or doing anything to hurt her. Because if he stuck to that goal, he'd never get out of the relationship.

In this situation, the friend was pushing that both parties should walk away without anyone feeling bad, and until he (the friend) wasn't feeling bad, OP's DS had no business saying goodbye forever. That's not possible.

OP, I hope you can get through to DS, loud, clear, and often, that this person is not a good or kind friend. Real friends make an effort to put the needs of their friends at least on a par with their own. This guy didn't care about the hurt and harm he was inflicting on DS, he wanted what he wanted, and nothing else was as important.

Make sure DS sees he deserves much better than that. A few sessions with a therapist to talk it all through sound like a good idea.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:29 pm

imasinger wrote:

I told DH he does not need this "friend." As soon as I saw him, it was clear to me that he had severe psychiatric issues. He admitted to DS that the reason he wanted to be friends with him was because it made him feel good since DS has a very good social stance in yeshiva and it made feel important. DS said he realizes that's not what a friendship is and he knows he doesn't need him. Still, he made him feel good which makes it more complicated.

For those who are judging me for letting them talk, while I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I will just point out that there was no time to think here, and when I heard he came with his mother, I thought it would be okay. I did go out with him to make sure she was really there and it wasn't just a trap to get him to come out and talk to him alone. I'm not saying I was right, I'm just asking you not to judge me.

amother

↑ Mayflower ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:31 pm

It's just such an overstepping of boundaries that the kid came with his mother and that his mother was a party in all of this. If someone doesn't want to be your friend you don't come over unannounced with your parent to "end things nicely." I think I would have just said I don't think this is appropriate and closed the door in their faces. Nothing to think about.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

His mother thought talking it out would help her kid move on. He's clearly unwell. I saw it on his face immediately when I went out. She knows him better than I do, and she apparently felt this was what he needed to move on.

amother

↑ Mayflower ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

And your first priority should be your child, not her child. I don't think your son gained anything out of all of this except that it's okay to cross boundaries and to continue crossing boundaries.

amother

↑ Topaz ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

What about your kid? Who’s sticking up for him and making sure he gets what he needs? He’s the one who was harassed. He’s the one whose boundaries are being stomped on over and over again. The other mother isn’t entitled to use your son. You need to get experts involved immediately.

I’m not judging you (well maybe a little bit) but you really need to realize that you need to put a stop to this, and that requires an experts involvement.

amother

↑ Mintgreen

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:37 pm

amother OP wrote:

Not judging you and I know these things aren't easy but your son was doing the right thing by not taking his calls whereas you allowed this man to talk to your son for 90mins.

I agree with those who are saying he should get therapy, apart from anything to help him steer clear of this situation in the future.

I hope this is the last you hear of this man.

Optione

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

I completely get that feeling of not having a second to think. It sounds like you tried to stay as level headed as possible. Kol hakavod!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:44 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

And your first priority should be your child, not her child. I don't think your son gained anything out of all of this except that it's okay to cross boundaries and to continue crossing boundaries.

My first priority IS my child. My child is being harassed for weeks with phone calls at all hours of the night. I will do anything to get this to stop and I thought this conversation might accomplish that. Right or wrong, my son's interest was the only thing I had in mind when I didn't stop him from going out.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:46 pm

sequoia wrote:

Yep.

We have to teach boys as well as girls that their safety and their boundaries are more important than “not hurting someone’s feelings.”

Believe me, I couldn't care less about his feelings. That wasn't why I let him talk to him. I let him because I hoped it would help this boy move on and stop harassing my son. I don't care if people think it was the wrong thing to do because that might be true, but I don't like being accused of not putting my son's interests first. My son's wellbeing was the only thing on my mind even if I may have made an incorrect decision.

amother

↑ Topaz ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 8:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

For those who are judging me for letting them talk, while I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I will just point out that there was no time to think here, and when I heard he came with his mother, I thought it would be okay. I did go out with him to make sure she was really there and it wasn't just a trap to get him to come out and talk to him alone. I'm not saying I was right, I'm just asking you not to judge me.

For the future, please don’t give in to this kind of pressure. Tell them you need to discuss with a few people about whether you are comfortable doing this. And then shut the door.

And during the time they were outside talking you could have reached out to others during that time, and then pulled your son away. You had so many chances.

Again, it’s not about what happened so much as it is about how to move forward. What happens if/when they show up again?

amother

Catmint

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

This boy has compulsive behaviors. With compulsive behaviors, giving in never makes it better. In fact, it is feeding the beast. Which makes it bigger and stronger.

Dolly Welsh ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:06 pm

I don't like the other boy's mother saying it is hurtful that your son blocked this other boy's calls.

It is his right to block anybody he wants to block.

This other boy has been told by his mother that his hurt is a rule of law. It isn't.

It's a harsh lesson, but it must be learned: other people's rights are more important than your hurt. Your hurt is your own. It is not anybody else's problem unless they are in a relationship with you. If they don't want any relationship, your hurt is your own problem and not theirs.

The other mother has done a terrible job of educating her son about boundaries, and her son has become very aggressive as a result.

That mother-son relationship is terrible and they need therapy. She needs it.

I think this couple, that boy and his mother, are dangerous people to you and your family. They think they own the world.

OK it's time to get your husband into this. Protecting your son has to be done by him, now.

I don't know what to do specifically but I wanted to mention how dangerous this is.

Therapy for your son? Yes maybe. It takes two to tango, and he may need some work too.

Don't have any further contact with these people ever again at all.

↑ Dolly Welsh ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 9:14 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

Chas v' sholom, OP, not judging you at all! It's a very difficult situation. Like the saying goes, little kids little problems, big kids bigger problems. I am not sure what I would do in your place. I also feel very bad for the other boy's mother.

Don't. She caused it all, by saying it was hurtful for OP's son to block her son's calls.

Uh, if another boy doesn't want to talk to you, well he doesn't have to. Talk to someone else.

"Someone who doesn't want to talk to you must not be the right friend for you, or, they would want to talk to you. Sure it's annoying. But people change. He isn't right for you anymore. You are both young and that is the time of change. Let it alone. We can't have everything we want."

But she didn't say that.