DS's friend went too far--not sure how to handle this

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:57 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

I would go straight back out, send your son back inside, say they've had time to talk but if he contacts your son again you will go to the police/contact his new yeshiva.

You need to protect your son.

I went through something similar with my daughter and still regret I didn't step in.

Thanks for sharing that. If it goes on much longer, I will go out and stay there with him.

amother

DarkKhaki ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

They're in our city for Shabbos so they came today already. Or maybe this is why they came to our city for Shabbos. I don't know.

This boy has psychological problems and is seen by a therapist and a psychiatrist and is on medication. I don't know what his diagnosis is, but there obviously is something there and that's probably what's making it so hard for him to move on. His mother seems to feel that if they talk things out, they'll be able to end things in a way that will enable him to let go and stop harassing my son.

I think this is a great step in the right direction and hopefully solves the issue

I do not think under any circumstances you should mention to other yeshivas or people that he caused this situation. You at the very least would need to ask a rav, and likely would be told you aren’t allowed to (it’s loshon hara and really not so simple, there’s Halacha to follow)

amother

↑ Mintgreen ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

My son is assertive enough that I trust him to come inside if he's uncomfortable there. He seems to be fine. He smiled at me when I came out.

But you said he's missed the boy pursuing him. It is nice to feel wanted.

This is NOT healthy.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 3:59 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

But you said he's missed the boy pursuing him. It is nice to feel wanted.

This is NOT healthy.

Despite missing that, he's been strong enough to hang up on him every single time and block his numbers. I will go out though and ask him if he wants to continue talking to him. If he doesn't, I'll make sure it ends immediately.

Cheiny ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

DS is almost 17 and is in yeshiva with a dorm. A couple of weeks before the end of the zman, he told me that there was a boy in the yeshiva who was driving him crazy. He wanted to be with him all the time. When DS would try to sleep, he would sit there watching him. Everywhere DS went, this boy followed him. He was about to lose his mind. DS said the boy sees a therapist and is on medication, but he didn't know what to do. He sounded so broken that I called the Rosh Yeshiva and asked him to intervene. Things improved after that and a few days later they came home for bein hazmanim. That boy is older than DS and this was his last year in yeshiva, so next zman there should be no problems.

I thought it was all over, but yesterday I got a phone call from a former Ram in the yeshiva. He said that DS had come to talk to him a day earlier and asked him for advice. He said the boy is continuing to harass him by phone. DS blocked his number, so he keeps calling from other people's phones and isn't giving up. The Rav said he also suspects the relationship may have gone beyond words. He said that he encouraged DS to talk to me about it and tell me everything and DS gave him permission to call me. He said that he thought DS needed someone professional to speak to and that he himself wasn't qualified to deal with it.

Tonight DS and I went out for a walk and I brought up the subject and asked him what's going on. He confirmed that the boy keeps trying to call him and he keeps hanging up on him and blocking his number. He admitted that he was feeling a gap now that they're not talking to each other since he had gotten used to this boy chasing after his friendship. He understands that with time that should resolve, especially if the boy gives up and stops calling him, but for now it's hard.

I asked him if it went beyond words and he admitted that it did. He said the boy stroked his face and tried to take it further than that, but DS stopped him and even called the boy's therapist to tell her what he had done. She said they had to completely cut off contact with each other which is what DS has been trying to do.

I'm left with a bunch of questions. 1. How do I help DS in this situation? Does he need to see a therapist? He seems very happy lately overall and I don't see that this is affecting his mental state overall except for what he and the Ram told me. 2. Do we have a responsibility to alert the yeshiva the boy's going to next zman to what he had tried to do? DS thinks we don't since he spoke to the therapist so now it's on her, and he also doesn't think he'll try it with anyone else because they were really, really good friends so he felt very comfortable with him. He said the boy told him he had found some inappropriate videos on their home computer and watched them, so he wanted to know what it felt like and attempted it with DS. I thought maybe I should tell the current RY and let him alert the new yeshiva, but DS is afraid they won't let him come, and he doesn't want to get him into trouble. Maybe I need to ask a Rav how to handle this. 3. I sort of know the boy's mother since they used to live in our city a very long time ago. I've spoken to her once or twice over the last year about yeshiva-related issues. Should I tell her her son keeps calling DS to see if she can try to put a stop to it? He calls as early as 6:30 a.m. and as late as 1:45 a.m. I don't have to tell her the whole story, I can just say it disturbs us at those hours.

Any wisdom?

Your son MUST speak to a therapist asap. There’s a good chance he hasn’t been completely forthcoming with you, and things might’ve gone further than what he’s admitting to, but he’s too ashamed to tell you.

You must speak to a Rov for guidance on how to proceed but your first obligation is to your own son, and to get him help with someone he’ll trust and feel comfortable opening up to.

Saying there’s no danger the boy will make advances towards others, because your son is the one he “was very good friends with and felt comfortable with,” is naive thinking. He will definitely try it with others as well.

Last edited by Cheiny on Fri, Aug 30 2024, 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:00 pm

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

I would not tell anyone without asking a rav. I already sent the shaila in and am waiting for an answer. I don't want to destroy this boy's life. I also don't want other people to be endangered by him, which is why it's even a question.

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

Honestly?

I’m a therapist. Your son (and you) don’t need to enable this. His issues need to be hashed out in therapy and with his supports. The more conversations they have the longer this drags on.

I’m shocked that you didn’t nip this in the bud long ago and have no clue why you would allow them to come over. They are creating issues in your son’s life and in his mind.

I would definitely ask the ry to keep an open ear to your son. He seems to trust him.

amother

Junglegreen

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:01 pm

This sounds quite strange. I don’t have advice for the situation.
But I would recommend setting up a couple of sessions for your son with a psychologist, to give him a chance to work through it.
It’s amazing that he talks with you so openly, but he is still a 17 year old boy and I can imagine there are things that might be uncomfortable for him to discuss with his mother.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:02 pm

I could be wrong , but the goal is to stop this relationship not to continue. What are they trying to accomplish? For your son to admit he was wrong ? He was not !! For the other boy to apologize? That would not take so long and it does not seem so from the start of the conversation. If they are not threatening your son, they could be trying to have him continue the friendship in some way.

amother

↑ Chestnut ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:04 pm

Honestly, I would go out there and end it. It's been going on for long enough. Your son is not responsible for the other boy's mental health. Say your son needs to go to mincha, has an appt, or is going with you to pick up your daughter. Just end it. And let them know that any further communication can be done through your son's ry, therapist, family rav etc.

↑ sequoia ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:07 pm

So, to be clear:

An adult man tried to sxually harass your son, called him nonstop at odd hours from different phone numbers after being blocked, and now has SHOWN UP AT YOUR HOUSE uninvited.

What in the bizarro world is happening here?!

Why are either of the mothers enabling this?!

Go out there and say, “Leave my family alone.” Go back in with your son. Have no further contact with this person, ever. Get an order of protection/restraining order if necessary.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:08 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

They came over unannounced. We didn't allow anything.

I let DS go out for his own sake, not the other boy's. I'm hoping this conversation will help the other boy stop harassing him.

I just went out again and DS signaled to me that he's coming in in 2 minutes. The other boy's mother was walking up and down the block so they can speak privately.

DS actually doesn't feel comfortable confiding in the RY. He went to speak to a former Ram about this who he really respects. The Ram isn't in the yeshiva anymore so he can't keep an eye on him.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:42 pm

They finally left. I had a long talk with DS afterwards. Apparently the boy was very angry at DS for blocking his calls, and his mother also said it's hurtful to do that. DS explained that he had no choice. He told me that when they left yeshiva at the end of the zman, they talked openly about how they're cutting ties and not speaking to each other again, and this boy seemed to accept that at the time. Apparently, he was too stuck to move on.

When I went out as they were ending things, the boy asked me if I'm angry at him. I asked him for what, not knowing if DS told him that he had told me about the physical part. He said "for what happened." I said "No, I'm not angry, I'm just concerned about my son. And I feel bad for you too because this isn't healthy for either one of you." He asked me if I think they need to cut off ties. I said absolutely. He said completely? I said yes. He said forever? I said yes. DS said his mother told him the same thing right before I came out.

I guess time will tell whether or not the conversation accomplished anything.

amother

Moonstone ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:44 pm

Op, I hope it was all resolved and your son got all he needed from this (I also hope the other boy gets the help he needs, and I hope his mom is ok and not too embarrassed about this, but that’s not your concern)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:47 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

She didn't seem embarrassed. She knows nothing about the physical part though. DS thinks maybe I should tell her, but he's not sure.

dena613 ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 4:54 pm

Sorry that's crazy. I don't know why you let them talk. It's making me angry thinking about it.

Your son has been s-xually and emotionally harrassed.

Your ds needs therapy and I hate to say it but I don't think this is over.

This boy needs to be threatened with a restraining order

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:03 pm

dena613 wrote:

I let them talk because I want the boy to stop harassing my son. I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but I can't change that at this point.

As I said, time will tell if it's over. I have my doubts myself. It was clear from the boy's conversation with me that he's not quite ready to move on.

I intend to call his Ram tomorrow and tell him everything and see if he thinks he needs therapy. Ultimately, it will be up to DS to decide. I trust him to make the right decision. In the past, when he felt he needed to speak to someone, he told me so openly.

amother

Topaz ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:04 pm

Get your son into therapy immediately. Someone who is an expert in these cases. So next time this boy and his mother show up at your door and ask for your son, you have someone who support you to NOT enable them.

amother

Mayflower ↓

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:04 pm

dena613 wrote:

Thank you for saying this. I couldn't quite find the right words to express myself. Too many red flags. I'm shocked at this other mother. I'm shocked that op took such a passive role. I have kids this age and none of this sits well with me.

amother

Waterlily

Thu, Aug 29 2024, 5:07 pm

At this point I would call the mom and tell her that this is a much bigger issue than she realizes. Give her all the info and then tell her that you'd like the friendship to end now naturally. If the boy contacts your son again you'll need to take protective measures for his safety.