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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
amother
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 Mon, Aug 05 2024, 12:35 pm
| amother Maize wrote: | You said she has a fall birthday, so she technically was held back a year already.
Then you cant leave her behind again.
2 years older then everyone.
I did put my then 10 , turning 11 year old son back into 5th grade, (happens to be that the grade above him was full and there was no room for him) and since he switched to a new academic school and has a November bday, and was the youngest in his old class. I was able to put him back. He is now 6th to the oldest.
Also boys are very different then girls. |
August 31 cutoff date, she was never held back
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mha3484
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 12:42 pm
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Since your anon anyway OP if you want to say where you are moving maybe one of us is familiar with the specific school and can give you better advice.
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amother
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 12:45 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I hear you. This makes sense. However she is the shortest one in her class anyway. But you have a point and being short doesn’t mean she won’t get her period when she’s 12(I got it around 12-13) and technically she would be in 5th grade when she’s turning 12 if I held her back |
For reference I was a fall baby and turned 12 in the beginning of 7th grade in NYC.
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amother
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 12:58 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | August 31 cutoff date, she was never held back |
Never heard of august 31 as a cut off date.
And what is the cut off date in the new school?
In brooklyn and lakewood the cut off date is in December.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 1:42 pm
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Baltimore has a cut off date, depending how you look at it August 31/September 1
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amother
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 2:17 pm
| amother Denim wrote: | In case you end up in a situation where you have to hold your dd back (I.e. the school insists because of the level she is at), I wanted to give some Chizzuk that for some girls it can work out fine.
Granted we held my dd back in kindergarten, which is an entirely different situation (but for similar reason - changing to a school where standards were very different), but we also moved to a different school when she was close to your dd’s age (so she was suddenly older at a new school) and she did completely fine with that too.
She is born at the end of the school year, but she had her Bas Mitzvah in grade 5. All the girls were so excited to have the first Bas Mitzvah in their class and it was not treated any differently than the other girls the following year.
She is very confident and happy. It is impossible to know for sure, as she was always held back, but I feel she is more confident being one grade back as it just seems to be the right level for her (she was a late bloomer, a bit late to mature, so always on par with the kids in her grade). Also, she never felt badly about being held back when we explained why when she was older.
I am in no way minimising the effect of holding a child back when they are older or the fact that your dd is born at the beginning of the school year, not the end, as I think these are very important factors to consider. Just providing a perspective that for some kids different things work, and if you are very careful to explain to her in a way that makes it clear it is not about her, but just the different standards of the new school, it is possible she would be okay with it. Of course you know her best and I would also seek out real life guidance from people who know her. |
A bas mitzvah in fifth grade is very early. All my
Girls had theirs in seventh grade you look upon that girl as a dummy that she needed to be left behind.
Please just get your daughter a tutor that she will be up to par.
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amother
Starflower
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 3:58 pm
I'm a fourth grade teacher too, and am absolutely astounded at how many of us there are on here!!
I think you should keep her in the right grade and start looking for experienced tutors with satisfied customers NOW, so when September starts, she's ready to roll.
I'd actually also try to get her a head start and get her tutored at this point in the summer.
I once taught a student who was very short and had repeated first grade.
It didn't help.
She struggled struggled struggled because her parents didn't give her assistance. Its about intervention, not holding back.
Hatzlacha!
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amother
Carnation
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 5:05 pm
Another 4th grade Morah here in an OOT school!
Definitely agree with all the posters saying to keep her at grade level.
IY"H she'll make friends and gain confidence in her new school, and if she needs extra support get it for her!! The school may have a resource room or something to help her catch up - where I teach it's totally normal for new kids to get pulled especially at the beginning of the year until they're up to par for our standards.
If she already has confidence struggles, keeping her back will likely make it worse, not better. She'll feel much older than her peers - if not in 4th certainly in middle school. I'd be stunned if the school thought this was a good idea.
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amother
NeonOrange
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 5:13 pm
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Im a school psychologist please dont leave her back at this age. This will greatly impact her self-esteem. It also wont solve any learning problems. Get her tutors, find things shes good at build her self confidence. There is nothing good that will come out of leaving her back.
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amother
Magnolia
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 5:19 pm
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I'm a tutor and get called for evaluations, programs, and guidance. I've never seen a grade school girl making progress or reaching par because they were left behind in grade school. If there's an issue, they need intervention. Spending another year in the same elementary grade doesn't solve any problems.
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amother
Pistachio
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 5:50 pm
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October 1st is the cutoff in Northern NJ.
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amother
Charcoal
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 7:21 pm
I just want to say regarding tutors. The girl has to want it. I know a girl even that was an embarrassment for her.
It's going to take your daughter time to catch up make sure the teacher is understanding. 5th is an easy year. The kids are usually done learning skills and will continue using thoae skills throught the year.Their is a lot of review from 4th.Maybe somone could preteach her the material. That she doesnt know. Dont focus on her marks this year and hust make sure she picks up all the skills. 6th grade is a hard year. I would keep her with her peers. I find the kids need each other to mature together.
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amother
Snapdragon
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 7:25 pm
| amother Strawberry wrote: | He was 5 or 6. It was repeat of the 5 year old program. The Morah in 3 year old flagged the issue to me but said I couldn’t repeat because 4 year old class is free (subsidized) in NY. The Morah in 4 year old class was a real chiller and didn’t see anything wrong ( even though he didn’t know Aleph Bais). The early childhood director flagged it again at the end of 4 year old. Then I sent to 5 year old. At that point the young new teacher flagged it and recommended leaving him back. Which is innovative for yeshivas. I went to speak to the principal and he was very confused - why would I be pushing for this. (In Manhattan where I work, people fight to leave their kids back and get an advantage. It’s called red shirting).
So anyway, I had him repeat 5 year old class. That year was Covid and we spent a lot of time together. My older kids were reading Harry Potter and he wanted to be able to do the same. We worked on reading. I also took him to the DOE for a full educational evaluation. They said he is average. And from then on it’s been B”H fine.
On the first day of the repeat, at the orientation, I stayed with him. The kids that used to be in his grade came to the door and pointed and laughed and said “why are you in this class again?” They were already in grade. I said - it’s a calendar issue, November baby. That was the end of the story. Then I took my son to the candy store, bought him Mike and Ike’s, and sat with his Aleph Bina with a candy on each word that he could eat if he read it correctly. He was in heaven.
Lately his friends have been commenting that they wish they had been left back, because they are September through December as well and it’s not fair that I have him this advantage. (He’s going into 5th now and is taller and does his studies slightly better than the other boys. He was always good at math, and coupled with the extra reading practice, gives an advantage in the common core curriculum). |
Same, but my ds is a June bday, so he turned 7, and some of his friends are still 5. He is the oldest by far and he prides himself on it. And I hope it’s given him enough foundational skills that for first grade his disability will be mild and with help he can soar. He will be bar mitzvah in June of 6th grade. Some kids won’t be bar mitzvah until September/October of 8th
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amother
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Mon, Aug 05 2024, 10:06 pm
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Wow OP you’re really lucky at the amount of teachers and professionals who responded to you and all saying the same thing so they’re not conflicting. I really hope you take their advice.
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Fabulous
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Thu, Aug 08 2024, 7:39 pm
| amother Strawberry wrote: | Just adding my two cents. I had my son (November birthday) repeat a grade and go from youngest to oldest. It changed his life. He had mild dyslexia and now is a star reader (can read 1000 pages a day). He used to be bullied and now he’s taller so no more of that (actually he sometimes acts aggressively which is a complete reversal from before). He has lots of confidence.
I am very, very happy that I held him back. In his case it made all the difference. Yes his Bar Mitzvah will be the first. So what? |
This would be the equivalent of where her daughter is now. His bar Mitzva was likely the beginning of 7th grade (which btw, I did for my son and super happy with my decision when he was 5), but this would be equivalent of your son having bar mitzvah in the beginning of SIXTH grade.
Her daughter would have bas mitzvah in the beginning of 5th, when most girls are in middle of sixth into 7th, which a few on the border of being left behind being in the beginning of 6th.
Op- I really wouldn’t do it.
Get her tutoring and social skills groups if necessary but do not leave her back the equivalent of two grades
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Fabulous
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Thu, Aug 08 2024, 7:40 pm
| amother Snapdragon wrote: | | Same, but my ds is a June bday, so he turned 7, and some of his friends are still 5. He is the oldest by far and he prides himself on it. And I hope it’s given him enough foundational skills that for first grade his disability will be mild and with help he can soar. He will be bar mitzvah in June of 6th grade. Some kids won’t be bar mitzvah until September/October of 8th |
It’s rare but I’ve heard of it in some schools- you don’t really hear about bar Mitzvahs in the BEG of 6th grade in mainstream schools
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