Dyslexic in just Hebrew reading? Is this possible?

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 7:48 pm

My 11 year old son really struggles with Kriah still. He knows all the letters and all the nekudos but when it comes to putting it together he still gets mixed up making the wrong sounds mixing up shin and sin etc when I break it up for him he knows it but it takes him ages to get through a simple Kriah page.

Sounds like Dyslexia right? Here's the thing. English reading he has no problem with. He loves reading and reads chapter books, comics books and magazines just fine! He is a little slower when reading aloud in English but nothing terrible.

So is it possible to be dyslexic in Hebrew reading but not English? And can anyone recommend a good Kriah tutor that deals with dyslexic readers? Would have to be virtual as we live out of town... We did one program once not for dyslexic which helped him get a better grasp of it but didn't help long term.

amother

Starflower ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 7:51 pm

This workbook series is based on Orton-Gillingham which is great for dyslexia:
https://www.torah4children.com/seder-kriah

In English you learn most words by sight but in Hebrew you really need to decode each letter because one nekuda off and you have a different word, and since you don't understand what you are reading there is no built-in error correction. In English if you read a word wrong you'll often notice because now the sentence makes no sense...

So if he's just a slow decoder it will come out in Hebrew much more than in English.

amother

Natural

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:08 pm

This is NOT my area of expertise. I am an SLP Who specializes in dyshphagia. However I very much remember reading research stating that what your describing is possible. Of course id rule out the possibility of dyslexia in english as well- however, it is indeed possible (based on literature ive come across) especially when languages are structurally different. Considering this is a langauge you read the opposite direction, and has vowels written seperately and entirely different form, id say it qualifies.

amother

Jetblack

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:19 pm

amother Coral wrote:

He probably has issues with English reading too but is able to compensate. How is his spelling in English? How did he do with phonics in the younger grades?

This. English and similar languages have more sight reading etc. rather than nearly exclusive phonetic reading and the pure use of roots and modifiers like in Hebrew.

I know many with dyslexia who have a much easier time reading English than Hebrew because of this. (Even if they are very good at listening to/speaking Hebrew).

sweetpotato

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:31 pm

I’m following this because we have a very similar situation with my daughter who just turned 9 (going into 4th grade). She reads above grade level in English but struggles immensely with kriah. We’re working on finding a system that will work for her.

My daughter has been diagnosed with adhd and struggles with focus but hasn’t been diagnosed with dyslexia. She needed extra support to learn to read in English— at the end of 1st grade she was still at an early K level. But with support over 2nd grade she jumped a bunch of levels with the Wilson method and went into 3rd grade above grade level reading and seems to have no issues now. So we assumed the English reading was focus related, not dyslexia.

But she has tons of struggle with kriah. She can read sight words but putting nekudot and letters together is hard. She tells me her eyes have to jump up and down from the nekudot and it makes everything look blurry (she has passed all her vision exams).

We’re looking into more help with the adhd but I’ve been really curious if it’s possible she has dyslexia just in Hebrew.

amother

↑ Starflower ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 8:40 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

The Irlen method (colored overlays) may be helpful in making the letters stop visually jumping. For some people it's the black on white that causes issues, but on a colored background they don't "move." You can get cheap color overlay sheets on Amazon to see if they are beneficial for her.

amother

↑ Coral

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:06 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

If your child was struggling and then excelled with support then it's very possible that they have dyslexia. Dyslexia doesn't mean a child can't learn to read.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:20 pm

Wow thanks for all the responses! Gave me lots of food for thought.

In answer to the questions about his English reading. He was in first grade during COVID so pretty much lost out on a good chunk of learning that year, they did have some online classes etc but you know how that goes with 6/7 year olds and we were all on survival mode. He started reading chapter books though towards the end of that year that my older daughter was passing onto him which I didn't believe he was really reading but in second grade when he started bringing home reading paragraphs he was reading them perfectly, I realized then that he was actually reading those books! He has been an avid reader ever since and I didn't notice him ever really struggling with English reading.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 9:25 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

My son also has ADHD but BH does not struggle with it so much. He does have extra sensory needs and goes to OT, he also struggles a lot with his hand writing which is a big focus of his OT sessions.

Same any word he is familiar with he can read no problem but when they get longer or are unfamiliar even if it's just two letters together he often gets confused and he it takes him so long to work it out...

I'm wondering if it's a sight thing for him too. The Kriah specialist we used a few years ago recommended that we get him some specialized eye test but quite frankly it's a lot of money to get him tested which is not feasible for us...

amother

Seashell

Mon, Jul 29 2024, 10:14 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

Sounds like it may be dyslexia. Dyslexia by definition is a delay in processing of sounds and symbols. Sight reading can compensate which is why some children master English but still struggle with Hebrew which is more phonetic and is harder to read for meaning for the English speaking crowd that don’t speak Hebrew as a language.

The Seder Kriah books (day school full edition) by Torah For Children show how to build words phonetically. We use a range of multi sensory techniques and guided instruction. This works well for children with this delay in processing of sounds and symbols.

https://www.torah4children.com/seder-kriah

Thank you amother starflower for the shout-out.
We love hearing feedback when our books have helped children learn to read.

Parents of children with reading challenges can contact us through our website for more help or for an evaluation.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 2:29 am

My child is struggling with reading and we’re still on the journey of figuring it all out. We tried vision therapy to help with tracking and convergence issues- and the vision therapist explained to me that many kids who have tracking issues, will have more difficulty reading Hebrew than English. This is because with English , you just read from left to right. But with Hebrew, you have to read right to left, and also your eyes have to go up and down to read the nekudos. This can be much harder for a kid who has tracking / convergence issues.

salt

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 3:24 am

I would have thought it's just that some people find it harder to learn a second language - no official diagnosis or anything.

He reads English well because it's his first language, as others have said, he reads a lot by word recognition, context and familiarity.

To get a grasp on Hebrew reading he will just need way more practice.

If he were to read a passage he's familiar with (eg. Shema) he will probably read it more fluently.
I think it's just a case of more practice.

That's my (non professional) opinion.

amother

↑ Starflower

Tue, Jul 30 2024, 3:43 am

salt wrote:

If he is accurate but a slow decoder this is true. I have one DD who just reads very slowly in Hebrew. She has worked on saying the whole Sefer Tehillim multiple times and notices a significant increase in speed since she is more familiar with the words. She still reads much slower than some of her younger siblings, but most would consider it a reasonable speed by now.

But if there is also an accuracy problem (which OP seems to indicate) then it may be something more than just unfamiliarity, and practice won't necessarily solve the issue.