S/o s/o what do consider a “free-for-all” house?

amother

Cyclamen

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 7:44 pm

My parents house has become this sort of house for my younger siblings. It's very hard for me to visit with my kids because my siblings (who are similar ages to my own children) get away with everything. I try to limit my kids when I'm there but I'm always the mean Mommy and how come Bubby lets Chaim..

Most common examples
- almost unlimited screentime
- no bedtime, they fall asleep anywhere
- Being told to do something and never following through with the consequence. I feel like this is a big one and it encompasses a lot. For example Chaim is riding a bike without a helmet. My mother says he'll have to choose a different activity if he doesn't put one on but he doesn't and no one notices (lack of supervision included) so nothing happens. I'll say the same thing to my kid but I'm the only one enforcing it and I can't parent my brother...

I don't even think I'm so rigid (but maybe I am?) it's just very hard to parent there and always be the "mean" one even when I try to give more wiggle room.

amother

Hawthorn

Tue, Jul 23 2024, 10:16 pm

amother Aqua wrote:

Are you my neighbor?
Becuase my neighbor has such a home.
And her kids are the nastiest kids on the block. they dont now right from wrong. They have no clue how to maintain proper relationships. They don't know how to treat others and how to share....
My neighbor will whatsapp on the group at 11:45 asking who sees her 11 year old and to send her home....

Kids need stability. They need routine and also flexibility.

My kids need to eat what I cook. There is enough of a variety that they can get full without needing to eat food they don't like.

They needs to be in bed at a certain time.

They absolutely must shower and brush/floss their teeth.

They def do need to put away their toys, dirty laundry and their school/camp stuff or other messes.

They can also have ices/ice cream/chips/cake/cookies freely within reason. And no not right before supper.
They also need to chip in from time to time. Like running to the corner grocery, babysitting or even changing a wet diaper in a pinch.

They each have to help clean for shabbos on their own level.

My kids need to be home by 8-830 latest as I do not allow kids to be out after dark.

Within those basics there is plenty of flexibility and I think every mother can choose for herself. But no cleanup ever no personal hygiene... it's neglectful imo.

Curious, how old are your kids?

Because a lot of what you're writing here is fine and dandy for younger children only. At a certain point in your kids' childhoods, the choices for many of these will be theirs to make.

For example, I am very on top of my younger kids' bath/shower schedule BECAUSE IT IS POSSIBLE. It's not so possible for my preteens and teens. Of course this doesn't mean NO hygiene, just that it's no longer my choice. Yes, I make sure everyone showers before Shabbos of course and I remind them to shower throughout the week, but but short of actually dragging them into the shower, which I will not do, there's not much I can do to make sure they shower often.

Yes, I speak to them about being clean and smelling nice and I tell them one day they will laugh at their old selves, and some of them choose to shower every day, but others will skip it most nights of the week. As my kids get older I find that most of them will establish their own hygiene routines once they reach a certain age and start caring. And if you haven't guessed yet, most of this applies to boys only. You can disagree but I don't think this is neglectful, just realistic.

On another note, you mention that kids need flexibility but I'm really not seeing that in your post. Your kids can't be out after dark but your neighborhood is safe enough for you to send kids to the store? They must eat your supper no matter what it is? Changing diapers? Where's the flexibility here?

amother

↑ NeonPurple

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:35 am

amother Hawthorn wrote:

This is an excellent point regarding older kids, especially boys.

Also the lines get blurry.

If my 13 year old son walks 2 blocks with his friend to a learning program and maariv and then walks home, it's not possible to say no going outside after dark and no hanging out with friends after dark.
Because what's the difference between slowly skootering home while talking to friends after maariv and actually playing with friends after dark.

amother

Mistyrose

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 5:39 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

My house is probably a free for all house.

…

I won't make you clean up your toys as long as you play in designated areas

I’m trying to imagine how this works
Do they eventually clean up the toys on their own.
My teens and pre teens would bec they value neatness and social norms .

But toddlers and young children would be happy constantly just stepping over toys that are our and would feel no need to put them away ever.

Even the brushing teeth. What motivates a young child to ever brush their twenty or shower. To them there is no benefit. Even my young child who gets many cavities would never choose to brush their teeth without prodding.

I feel like my pre-teens and teens behave appropriately bec they did have to do things when younger and learned appropriate behavior, hygienie, cleanliness, regulating their body. Etc

giselle

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 6:13 am

Why does it have to be one or the other? Each family needs to find a healthy balance that works for them. When my kids were little I had rules but they weren’t rigid. Now that they’re teens, I have almost no rules. They don’t need them anymore because they’re aware of what’s normal and healthy. No I wouldn’t want them to have potato chips and ice cream for dinner, but they’d never ask for that. Creating a healthy flexibly structured environment for your kids in childhood helps them grow up into healthy teens who are independent enough to maintain that healthy structure. If it’s too rigid when they’re younger, as teens they’ll just rebel. I certainly wasn’t perfect, we’re all only human, but finding a healthy balance is crucial, and that will look a bit different for each family.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:21 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

My house is probably a free for all house.

If you want a cookie instead of supper as long as you don't ask me or make a big deal, go eat cookies.

I won't make you brush your teeth or shower or clean your room.

You can go to bed whenever you want but at some point I won't be able to sit with you anymore

I won't make you clean up your toys as long as you play in designated areas

If you want pizza for supper I will go out and buy you some, but slush only sometimes

You can visit friends whenever you want and I will drive you if I'm up to it

My home was like this. Many kids. They are now all adults. They turned out just fine.

amother

↑ Zinnia ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:34 pm

amother Mistyrose wrote:

Me and the cleaning lady do it. I used to make one of my kids brush their teeth. It was a battle every night and I felt fatigued. Basically it's not because I don't care, I just don't have the physical and emotional energy so I rather use it to be emotionally available to them when they need it or get them to and from camp, get them out in the morning, do their laundry, help them with homework if they need, sit by their bed at night for some time etc..

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:39 pm

I have a pretty chilled home I think. My kids are happy and healthy.

Bedtime is an approximate time ex between 9-9:30/45
It just means be in your room. You can read or go to sleep.

I make supper- if they don’t like it then they can ask for something else. Anyone can eat whenever they’re hungry.

There is no food out of bounds.

They must shower and brush their teeth but they can choose when.

Everyone must be home by a certain time but I don’t freak out if they come home a little late.

I love the way I’m raising my kids. It’s a low stress environment. My kids are top of their class, healthy and happy and well behaved.

amother

Brass

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 4:07 pm

I was the youngest child and was raised “free for all” it’s ironic because my mother was extremely rigid with my older siblings.
When it came to me she said I was a good child so she didn’t need to discipline me often. She also said she got smarter and realized a lot of things are not worth fighting for. There were certain rules that I could never cross for example chutzpah, or following tznius rules etc.
I always respected my parents, listened to them, and helped out when asked… but I didn’t have a lot of chores. When it came to dinner, bedtime, hygiene and screen time my mother basically had no rules. I did resent the fact that supper was a free for all, eat what you want.
And when I got married I realized that she didn’t instill hygiene habits in me like showering every night and brushing my teeth, so I had to consciously work on that. And it is something I still struggle with to this day.
Overall I am bh doing well, I’m successful and have no lasting trauma. I am pleasant to be around, nice to people etc.

the world's best mom

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 4:34 pm

To me, a free for all home is a home in which the children know they don't have to listen to their parents. They can say no or just ignore the parents and nothing happens to them.

Also if there are no rules, as others have posted.

I am somewhere in the middle. I am not a very structured person by nature, so I don't always make my kids clean up after themselves, and I forget to make sure they eat enough before bedtime so they don't need to eat at bedtime.

They do have a bedtime, but they usually request food and I let them eat something. Generally only fruit or crackers or sometimes more supper if they didn't have enough. And we read a bedtime story and life happens, so bedtime could drag on for a while. But if I start bedtime at 7 during the school year, the little ones are usually settled by 8. During the summer we start at 8:30.

Showering happens every other night.

No snacks are allowed around meal time, and candy is only for Shabbos.

I remind kids to do homework when I remember, and yes, I forget sometimes. Too bad. For the younger kids I usually remember, and the older ones are more on their own.

amother

NeonOrange

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:03 pm

For me it's not so much what's allowed or not, but more what happens when something is not allowed.

For example, a mother is walking with her children. They run ahead (yes I'm out of town). Is it because she lets? What happens when she says "wait!"? Do they keep looking back at her to check if it's ok with her or is she chasing them?

Let's say two houses have a late bedtime. Is it because bedtime is a huge fight, so the mother delayed it because she has no energy? Or is it because the whole family gets up late during vacation and they're enjoying hanging out? And as soon as Mom says "bedtime!"the process starts regardless of what time it is.

amother

↑ Seagreen

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 7:08 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

The thing is that free for all would look different for everyone because even adults have different levels of rigidness.

For example one poster wrote that she teaches her kids to wash their hands 7 minutes before leaving, go to the bathroom 5 minutes before, put on shoes 3 minutes before etc. this for me is ocd like and I don’t live like this at all, not as kids nor as adults.

That was me. Um no. Please read for context. I was giving an example of how children can be taught to get ready successfully according to the clock, learning how much time each thing takes, and that it is not micromanaging. I do not actually do the exact example I gave but something similar.