New draft and frum families making aliyah

amother

↑ Plum

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:34 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

well these are good questions in theory iyH when everyone is frum mashiach will be here. until then things are working just fine.

What do you mean by this?

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:35 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

well these are good questions in theory iyH when everyone is frum mashiach will be here. until then things are working just fine.

But are things working just fine? The army says they don't have enough soldiers. There are people who are on their third or even fourth round of miluim who are falling apart and whose families are falling apart. I just got off the phone with a neighbor of mine. She has 11 kids bli ayin hara, the youngest was born a few months ago while her husband was on miluim. Her husband is an avreich by the way. She told me that he just went again after only two months at home. Is that called working just fine? If we had more soldiers the burden would be split between more people...

↑ Reality ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:35 pm

Rappel wrote:

I've learned a lot on this thread. Thank you.

Would you mind sharing what you have learned?

I have found this entire thread to be predictable and unenlightening.

Also, where did OP go? Maybe she's packing for her lift?

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:36 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

well these are good questions in theory iyH when everyone is frum mashiach will be here. until then things are working just fine.

And according to the Rambam, as part of the process of mashiach coming we will need to fight wars and win them... Who will fight the wars?

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:37 pm

someone wrote:

I just don't understand why so many were dismissed than, and why they turned away so many volunteers.

Things aren't adding up to me here. They seem to be complaining about a lack of Manpower but at the same time they seems to be a lack of organization and utilization of the current Manpower.

This is what I keep reading and hearing.

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:38 pm

someone wrote:

But even if we aren't meant to be in control of EY, there are millions of Jews here whose lives are in danger. Doesn't that mean that we all have some kind of responsibility to try and protect our fellow Jews?

yes.

but that doesnt exclusively mean drafting into the army.

there are many ways to protect our rfellow jews - spiritually and physically.

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:39 pm

someone wrote:

And according to the Rambam, as part of the process of mashiach coming we will need to fight wars and win them... Who will fight the wars?

ok and there are many ways to interpret that .

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:40 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Most of those people were too old to be in combat. The army doesn't have enough combat soldiers.
They have enough people for the roles those people could have filled.

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:42 pm

someone wrote:

I'd love to hear more, because I'm only familiar with one way

well first of all - you have to first agree that this is that exact time he was referring to.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:43 pm

imaima wrote:

You are being really difficult. Is it so hard to explain what particular values are not accommodated by the IDF? That was your own argument.
I want to understand. Torah and mitzvot are also a foundation of dati leumi, but they also serve.
Do you know how many mitzvos you can do during the war? You are literally saving lives. Any chareidi should run to apply.

Amethyst gave you an explanation.
I can give you one example. My FIL was placed in army jail because of siruv pekuda. He was ordered to do some things which were chillul Shabbos when it was clear that there was no need to do it. There was no pikuach nefesh. No the non-religious mefaked didn't care about chillul Shabbos. He still ordered it.
My FIL was in jail twice because he refused to be mechallel Shabbos for things that weren't even necessary.
After that he swore he wouldn't send his sons to IDF.
Would you send your sons to IDF where they will be ordered to mechallel Shabbos when there is NO pikuach nefesh?

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:43 pm

someone wrote:

Most of those people were too old to be in combat. The army doesn't have enough combat soldiers.
They have enough people for the roles those people could have filled.

I hear. I know quite a few people who were dismissed from combat roles to go back to work in the prisons, police, or hospital system as they felt they needed them more there.

Some from higher/specialized combat roles too, as a commander for example.

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:44 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

if only you all knew what 1 second of learning Torah does for the world. With out learning Torah we mamish have nothing.

But who is talking about stopping people from learning Torah? That's what I'm trying to say here. This fallacy that we have to choose between serving in the army and learning is simply untrue.
You don't know me in real life so you have no context for what I'm saying, but I value Torah learning very very much. My husband in is full time learning. Of course without Torah learning we have nothing. I don't see how that contradicts what people here are saying

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:44 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

all the people who want to be in the army, the chilonim and whatever DL ppl want to enlist. basically exactly the people who are in the army now. but anyways b'etzem the chareidim believe that it is really the learning that is protecting us but Hashem works through teva and that is why we have an army, but if for even one second there wouldnt be Torah learning the whole world would be destroyed.

But that would never happen, even if ALL charedim enlisted. Hashem made different time zones, so when we are sleeping here, and even full time learners sleep, someone in america or australia is learning. So that argument is not a good one. Next.

↑ essie14 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:44 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

if only you all knew what 1 second of learning Torah does for the world. With out learning Torah we mamish have nothing.

There is so much torah learning going on. Every single person under age 18 is ineligible for the army.
No one over age 40 ever has to do miluim. Ever.
No one with more than 6 children ever has to do miluim.
Elite torah scholars would automatically get an exemption from the army.
There are thousands of religious soldiers in Gaza right now who are learning Torah in between operations and in their limited feee time at home.
Even now during wartime there would be tens of thousands of people exclusively learning Torah even if chareidim were drafted.

Last edited by essie14 on Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ LovesHashem ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 2:46 pm

essie14 wrote:

So how is someone's neighbor doing milium then? He's a father of 11.