New draft and frum families making aliyah

↑ essie14 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:19 am

amother Firethorn wrote:

Um, there are actually dati leumi rabbis who do weddings. We had a DL mohel for our sons with a big kippah sruga. We actually have a DL shul with aliyah laTorah. Chareidim are not the only ones providing these services, you know?
This idea that chareidim are the only ones keeping all the mitzvot gets a bit tiresome with time.

Seriously. Every brit milah I go to has a DL mohel. A DL rabbi married DH and I.

We don't need chareidi rabbis for religious functions. There are many DL rabbis in Israel. MANY.

↑ imaima ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:21 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I'm not qualified to give an answer since I am not educated in the details.

You are saying that chareidim won‘t compromise on their values, but you are not qualified to specify what these values are. Is that what you are saying? Make it make sense.

↑ someone ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:25 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

there is no way Hashem wants someone who is sitting and learning all day to leave yeshiva and go to the army, no way sorry.

Oh ok. Great, thanks for clearing that up for us. It's a shame no one told that to all the rabbanim, dayanim, avreichim and yeshiva students who are serving in Azza /up north/ in Yehuda V'Shomron at this very moment.

amother

↑ Plum ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:29 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

there is no way Hashem wants someone who is sitting and learning all day to leave yeshiva and go to the army, no way sorry.

So thats my question. So then who should go fight for us to protect us?
For someone who doesnt value torah learning they see it as boys being cowards/too lazy to fight. Why cant the benchwarmers do both? Why cant my BIL who is 22 and half a day in yeshiva and a half a day galavanting around the country and learning to play piano/working out in a gym also enlist for a bit?

↑ essie14 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:31 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

there is no way Hashem wants someone who is sitting and learning all day to leave yeshiva and go to the army, no way sorry.

I guess the yeshiva guys who all got pulled from the beit medrash are not fulfilling what Hashem wants.
Wow, you're really confident in that nevuah you've got.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Last edited by essie14 on Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:34 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

there is no way Hashem wants someone who is sitting and learning all day to leave yeshiva and go to the army, no way sorry.

Thank you secretary of god. Wow, you have ruach hakodesh? Im sorry, none of us actually know what hashem wants.
And do you think the learners who are not charedi, wanted to have to stop learning to do their army service? And yes, there are kollelim in the dati leumi world as well.

amother

↑ Buttercup

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:44 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

there is no way Hashem wants someone who is sitting and learning all day to leave yeshiva and go to the army, no way sorry.

Don’t worry, many chareidim who were learning left to serve out of their own free will. Did you see the pictures outside the lishkat hagiyus after 10/7?

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:46 am

imaima wrote:

You are saying that chareidim won‘t compromise on their values, but you are not qualified to specify what these values are. Is that what you are saying? Make it make sense.

That's not what I've claimed.
I've said the IDF doesn't and cant accommodate tnaim for chareidim.
I'm not qualified to specify in detail exactly if yechida X or Y has chareidim accommodated things.
The foundation and values of chareidim are well known. Torah and mitzvot.

camp123

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:47 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

I didn't read this entire thread but the bottom line is that Daas Torah is telling charedim not to go the army. Sefardim, Chassidim, Litvish, peleg yerushalmi - there is no charedi gadol who came out and said yes, charedim should join the army. Even the bachurm who are not learning, even the bachurim who are not keeping all the mitzvos. Individual cases, yes, but on mass, no.

If you're dati leumi and your rabbanim say to go to the army, great! But please respect the fact that we respect our rabbanim and try to follow what they say.

There is a lot going on here beneath the surface, it's not a simple matter.

This is not true, there is a split in the charadi das Torah some rabbanim are saying no one should go fight. And others are saying those who are not learning should go to the army. Rav shach held that boys who were not learning and didn't go to the army were a rodef.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:56 am

essie14 wrote:

Seriously. Every brit milah I go to has a DL mohel. A DL rabbi married DH and I.

We don't need chareidi rabbis for religious functions. There are many DL rabbis in Israel. MANY.

My question wasn't directed to you.
Secondly of all it's highly arrogant to claim "we don't need chareidi Rabbis for religious functions".
I have no problem with DL Rabbis for brit milah. Nobody said chareidim has monopoly on religious services.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:58 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Im sorry but you are going to have to do better than that because any frum jew, including dati leumi in israel, as we are talking about in israel, also base our lives on torah and mitzvot.

Banging head

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 10:59 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

You literally replied with that. You said that they would need charedim for those life cycle events.
And in a thread different people will reply to different replies. Thats the whole concept of the thread.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 11:01 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

TLDR the whole thread. As an outsider, with family in Israel on every level of religiosity, I think it’s like this:
Israel is a small country and it needs lots of defense capabilities. However, they don’t need everyone. Just like in USA, when there is a draft, not everyone serves. For example, in USA women are not drafted. If they want to serve they can. Religious students are not drafted. It doesn’t matter the religion. In Israel, they don’t want everyone to be in the army. Plenty of frum-chareidi-DL-yeshivish (pick your type) serve in the army. And plenty get out of it. Some legally and some not. Just like everywhere else. The army only wants a certain type and only if they’ll be helpful. And in USA, there is talk about women having to fill out a selective service card. Every male in USA has to fill out and get a SS number when he turns 18 and in case of a draft that is how the army will get people. Every male needs one until the age of 26 and every few years there is talk of females needing one too.
If every eligible male would register for the Israeli army, there would be too many people in the army. All that the army wants is to figure out who is legally not serving.
Draft dodging is nothing new. Many presidents in America were draft dodgers. I don’t think most chareidim will go to the army. The bench warmers will. (And October 8,9,10…many many chareidim went in their own to misrad hagiyus. If they were so desperate, were they taken?)

I've started many times some sectors in IDF lack soldiers and many sectors have too many.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 11:03 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

well no one is forcing them to leave kollel and go enlist. that is their choice.

amother

↑ Amethyst ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 11:04 am

essie14 wrote:

I guess the yeshiva guys who all got pulled from the beit medrash are not fulfilling what Hashem wants.
Wow, you're really confident in that nevuah you've got.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

I dont need to have nevuah when every gadol is saying that someone in yeshiva should NOT leave to enlist.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 11:06 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I'm not the spokesperson for DL nor have I *ever* claimed that DL don't keep Torah ve mitzvot.

amother

↑ Yarrow ↓

Thu, Jul 18 2024, 11:09 am

essie14 wrote:

I guess the yeshiva guys who all got pulled from the beit medrash are not fulfilling what Hashem wants.
Wow, you're really confident in that nevuah you've got.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

either way we cant know whats right, maybe they are, maybe you are.

the point is that everyone is following their rabbanim.

and I see here Imas who say they are DL saying terrible things against the gedolim of the chareidi world. I dont care how pained you are about this situation, its not OK.