Tattoos in halacha

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 8:58 am

BadTichelDay wrote:

People can call themselves anything, but that doesn't mean they are. I can call myself the rebbetzin of the International Space Station, doesn't mean I am.

Also, maybe the use of the word modern for less/non-observant needs to be dropped. It's nothing but a twisted euphemism. Why not just call it secular or otd, because that's what it really is.

Tattoos are not modern, they've been around for thousands of years among non-Jews. Getting a tattoo is not modern, in the same way that eating lobster or using your phone on Shabbat isn't "modern". Those behaviors are simply transgressions of halacha. The end.

I agree with your first paragraph, that’s why I emphasized the word CALL. They can SAY whatever they want, even if it isn’t the reality.
Regarding the second paragraph, I would only say they are secular or OTD (I really hate that term) if they actually don’t keep any Halacha.
You’re right, tattoos are not a modern thing by any means. But I think that, here, when someone says that, they mean to say that it’s something done by people more on the left of the religious spectrum.

anonymous mom ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:00 am

I personally know 2 OTD chasidish girls who call themselves modern orthodox. Both don't cover their hair and dress completely not tznius. I think they call themselves MO because they still like to identify as Jewish and like to participate in certain things like YT. I'm not saying that they are MO, but what I'm saying is that for some reason there is a trend for ex frum individuals to identify as MO.

↑ vintagebknyc

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:03 am

anonymous mom wrote:

And my neighbor has a Chabad rav, Mendy, who visits her every Saturday and to do so has to ring our buzzer. I've seen it with my own two eyes.

↑ salsa

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:03 am

anonymous mom wrote:

It makes them feel better than saying otd. They enjoy shabbos and yt gatherings but not sure what else in yiddishkeit they care about

↑ BadTichelDay

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:09 am

anonymous mom wrote:

Well, that's so to say unfair, because people see and hear it and conclude that MO just don't keep halacha. See multiple threads on imamother with such sentiments.
Never mind that true Modern Orthodoxy absolutely abides by halacha, even if sometimes by a more lenient psak, but not by just-do-what-you-want-and-don't-ask.

↑ anonymous mom

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:12 am

BadTichelDay wrote:

I agree that it's not fair.

↑ essie14

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:27 am

anonymous mom wrote:

And that's why we MO women here get so much flack that we are not frum
🙄🙄
Being lapsed chassidish and enjoying participating in a Pesach seder does not make someone MO.

keym ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 9:44 am

Aurora wrote:

But who taught these young women that if you were lapsed Chassidish and only kept the mitvoth you wanted = MO?

Because they confuse "Modern" (which is what they call anyone who drops or keeps fewer chumros, hanhagos, etc. from a yeshivish woman who only wears 1 head covering to someone who marries a nonJew, all called modern) with "MO" (a specific shitta)

↑ Aurora ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 10:28 am

singleagain wrote:

Let these lapsed people call themselves something else. Traditionalists maybe.. or cultural Jews .. I don't care but stop appropriating our identity.

Cultural Jews would probably make more sense. But we'd need the parents in other frum communities to re-enforce this.

↑ singleagain ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 10:30 am

Aurora wrote:

Cultural Jews would probably make more sense. But we'd need the parents in other frum communities to re-enforce this.

Yes. And you know what... Some of the post I read from cultural Jews {on Reddit} are some of the most sincere posts I've seen.

↑ Aurora ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 10:31 am

singleagain wrote:

Yes. And you know what... Some of the post I read from cultural Jews {on Reddit} are some of the most sincere posts I've seen.

Also very true. I wish there were a way we could all spend Shabbats in other communities.

↑ singleagain

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 11:46 am

mommy9 wrote:

I've heard chassidim call their otd people yeshivish or litvish. Not just mo.

But are they actually following the yeshivish or litvish derech bc if yes. That's fine. But if they aren't actually following the derech they shouldn't be calling themselves that.

User5 ↓

Thu, Jul 11 2024, 12:12 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

You very obviously do not know what modern orthodoxy is from your posts.
If your friend is calling herself modern orthodox but getting a tattoo, she is not modern orthodox. Orthodox people do not get tattoos. Full stop.
And the real modern orthodox folks are not modern orthodox are not chilled about halacha and are not jewish when convenient. Please, read up about modern orthodoxy. And understand that your friend is not that.

There are plenty of MO people that pick and choose their yiddishkeit. And I’m not talking about ex chassidish. Go visit some places in New Jersey (near Teaneck, iykyk) and you’ll see many ppl that are barely frum but identify as such (I.e. eat non kosher dairy is one example I’ve seen)