S/O Fat Acceptance

amother

↑ Sapphire ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 7:42 am

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

I understand what you're saying. I still don't think obesity is this huge mystery you're making it out to be. Sure, it's hard to reverse with willpower alone, but that's not because we don't understand it, it's because the food industry is determined to keep shoving products that override that willpower in our faces.

That tidbit about electricity in China shouldn't lead us to ozempic. It should lead us to safer artificial lighting that doesn't mess with our circadian rhythms which yes, is tightly tied to metabolism.

I get what ozempic teaches us, but we knew this all along. Guess what messes up the ozempic pathways to begin with? Processed foods! I'm so sick of big pharma being in bed with food giants creating the foods that are making us sick, and then creating the "cure". I don't believe for a second that they care about our health. Drugs are not the solution.

https://www.scientificamerican.....cess.

There were obese people on the olden days too before food giants

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:23 am

Fox wrote:

Absolutely true.

In fact, there is something called "the obesity paradox." Obese people are far more likely to develop certain illnesses but also far more likely to survive them.

Metabolic conditions in general are full of interesting questions.

For example, Type 2 diabetes has skyrocketed in rural China, where people eat pretty much what they've eaten for thousands of years.

What's changed? Electricity. People now can light their homes after dark and thus get a couple of hours less sleep. Sleep plays a huge role in regulating metabolism, and poor quality or inadequate sleep is an engraved invitation for diabetes.

The obesity paradox is a hoax. Don't fall for the FA lies.

The Obesity Paradox was first described in 1999 when researchers found that obese patients who experienced heart failure had a lower mortality rate than normal-sized patients who experienced heart failure.
Since then, the Obesity Paradox has been debunked because first of all, obese patients were 2 to 3 times more likely to experience heart failure in the first place, so they still had a higher mortality rate overall. Second, the study excluded some specific artery diseases which would change the results of the data and third, it doesn't account for the fact that obese patients tend to receive more aggressive treatment to their heart issues which is what probably leads to their increased survival rate.

This is similar to the Smoker's Paradox. (smokers who suffered from heart attacks had a lower mortality rate than nonsmokers. )

Obesity kills. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

And people in China are NOT eating the same way they have for thousands of years. Their calorie intake has greatly increased.

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:35 am

Fox wrote:

We have this dissonance in society because we don't know why people are obese. The medical establishment, especially, doesn't like to say, "We have no clue." So they blame the patient.

To those who say, "Well, people are obese because they eat too much! Stop eating too much" -- please don't embarrass yourself further by putting your ignorance on display.

That's like telling schizophrenics to just stop hallucinating.
__________________________

Thirty years ago, there was an important book written for a lay audience called Listening to Prozac. It was a description of how SSRI drugs upended much of what we thought we knew about mental illness.

No longer did psychiatrists drone on about distant mothers, smothering mothers, and all the other ppopular villains. They gave depressed or anxious patients a pill, and that was that. People who'd spent decades in psychoanalysis thanked their doctors and announced their therapy complete.

We are teetering on the verge of Listening to Ozempic.

It's becoming clearer with each passing day that obesity is connected to our brains, not our digestive systems. The fact that Ozempic helps alcoholics and gambling addicts gives us a clue to what's going on.

Obese people do not overeat because they lack willpower, are bored, are eating their emotions or any of the other nonsense used to say, "We don't know." They eat because their brains are telling them that they're hungry. Their brains are lying, but good luck arguing indefinitely with your brain.
__________________________

The fat acceptance folks are actually the most logical ones. Their position, if you boil it down, is "Be honest. Don't take medical ignorance out on us!"

And that's a good point. The current mentality is little more than believing that witches are causing the crops to fail.

But a better answer is to celebrate neither obesity nor schizophrenia, but rather aggressively look for preventions and cures for both.

You say "that's like telling schizophrenics just stop hallucinating!" And "FA folks are the most logical ones"

You are right that overeating is as much a symptom as a cause.

But the HAES are NOT the logical ones here. They are the ones saying, "Accept the hallucinations. It's just as valid as other people's perceptions. Don't go to doctors who talk about hallucinations as if they are bad. People who hallucinate are just as mentally healthy as people who don't. Indulge in your fantasies and don't go for help. Do not change. "

mummiedearest ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 8:49 am

Fox wrote:

I disagree, Fox.

Anti-depressants were used to label depression as an illness. We now consider this “mental illness” universally. I don’t believe depression is an illness, it’s a symptom of circumstances. Anti-depressants have their uses, but no one knows how they actually work. There has been a long-held theory about chemical imbalance, but it has never been proven. Anti-depressants are not a cure, they dull all extreme emotions when they work. They create a disability to feel joy. People tend not to notice this, since depression prevents joy, but a cure should enable the patient to feel joy, not prevent it. Sure, people spend years in therapy. The psychotherapy field is a minefield to navigate, all while emotionally inflexible. Mental flexibility is needed for problem solving.

On to the ozempic discussion: it’s clear why it works. Ozempic messes with the gut, yes. It also messes with the ability for the human brain to feel pleasure. Addicts behave the way they do for pleasure. We eat foods that taste good for pleasure. If we can’t process pleasure properly, we won’t do those things. There have been reports of heightened suicidality among patients who take this type of shot because they can no longer feel pleasure. This does not seem to be a sustainable solution.

Re: brain vs. digestive system, they are absolutely connected. The gut micro biome has a huge effect on our behavior. I don’t think obesity is necessarily a sign of laziness. For most people, it’s lack of understanding of nutrition/individual nutritional needs along with lack of skills to manage these needs. Combine that with the widespread availability of addictive foods and a culture that makes sharing meals a necessity, and it takes a ridiculous amount of strength to navigate. Meanwhile, obese folk complain that they get terrible medical care. To that I say this: EVERYBODY gets terrible medical care. We have an awful system that refuses to help patients maintain actual health. Those of us who take charge of our own health because the medical system is a wreck are told we have unhealthy eating habits and should loosen up.

Obesity is not an illness. It is a symptom of an unnaturally abundant lifestyle. It’s not there due to laziness, but it takes a boatload of determination to change it. Medicalizing it is a huge problem. We all need to take care of ourselves as best we can.

↑ sushilover ↓

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:24 am

For those saying that weight gain is often not caused by overeating, there is this amazing British show called secret eaters. You can find episodes on YouTube.
In the show, every person said that they can't understand why they are gaining weight and gave the show permission to film them for a week.

The show found that people were significantly underestimating their portion sizes, were adding calories without realizing through spoonfuls of oil, peanut butter, or mayonnaise and not understanding how many calories they were adding to healthy meals, and even having total food amnesia: genuinely not remembering eating that treat or soda. One woman who I really identified with was so careful about eating healthy foods throughout the week, but gave herself permission to have treats on the weekend: Friday night drinks, a big English breakfast, and nice Sunday dinner. All her calories were coming from the weekend. And it wasn't like she was fressing. Just typical slightly generous "Yom tov" portions because it was the weekend and she deserved it after being so careful all week.

I think that's what we tend to do.
Remember, eating just 700 extra calories every weekend would mean gaining almost a pound a month. Just 700 extra calories! I think most of us overeat without realizing it.

amother

↑ Tiffanyblue

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:34 am

sushilover wrote:

Again some yes. My typical supper is salmon, broccoli and rice with only spices. And I know how much I eat and it’s smaller than all adults around me. I don’t take seconds. Like I said food is not always the answer and some people are aware of what they eat.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 9:37 am

sushilover wrote:

This makes so much sense. I do however think we all deserve that big weekend breakfast, special shabbos treat etc. That's not considered overindulgence in my book.

This is exactly why intermittent fasting works so well for so many, there is simply no extra " just a little snack, just another coffee...."

What I see irl, there are obese individuals who live on McDonald's & obese people that live a relatively healthy lifestyle. It doesn't take much for a yiddishe Mama of 8 children to have 100lb extra in just baby weight, regular eating & exercise will not take that off only vigorous dieting ( in my personal experience- of course some are lucky)

amother

Opal

Fri, Jul 05 2024, 10:00 am

So some people slowly gain weight and become obese over 20 years, ok

Some people were heavy children who became heavy adults with no one big dramatic change, ok

Other people get a health condition such as hypothyroidism and suddenly become obese, ok

BUT what's going on in America and is an atrocity IMO is that many, many, many of these very obese Gen Z and Millenials, gained 80 lbs in 1 year after taking psychiatric medicine!!!!!!!!!!! And even after stopping the med, they can't lose the weight. And those meds are still on the market!!!!!!!! And doctors don't even warn you about them because the fat acceptance movement says "fat is totally normal and there is nothing wrong with gaining 80 lbs in 1 year, so even if this medicine only helps 2% of people but makes 20 % obese, it is totally safe and worth a try, because there is nothing wrong with being obese! Not ok.