S/O Fat Acceptance

amother

OP ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:53 pm

I’m trying to make sense of this. I know it’s a loaded topic but I’d appreciate if some smart women can help me figure this out.

On one hand, our current diet culture is insane. You see women who are an XS counting every spoon they take into their mouth to make sure they’re never gaining a pound. You have fat people being viewed as lazy, when sometimes they truly do eat healthy but their metabolism sucks.

Otoh, there’s no denying that obesity kills. Yet you’ve got people who will disregard any diet options because “nothing works”, or “Hashem created food to enjoy”, but in reality they’re actively destroying their health.

So which is the right way? I know the answer is balance, but fat acceptance doesn’t view balance as something worthy, as being fit just isn't a goal. And I know some people who really eat healthy but are overweight due to thyroid issues, or just because they have birth to 7 kids and each left them with 10 extra lbs. Do they need to go crazy and starve themselves I order to not be overweight?

LovesHashem

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 4:55 pm

Whenever something becomes a political issues it's polarized. Fatness has become that. The Liberals have hijacked the fat acceptance movement, and combined it with the ideology of all their movements that everything is great and acceptable and wonderful (except being a zionist).

I'm not skinny. I'm a regular XL and I can't fit into most frum brands for reference.

I think we need to get to a realistic place where we realize that screaming at people and negativity doesn't change people's patterns. So if health is the goal, there's a way to raise awareness about what that is.

I am one of those people, I don't eat junk food, don't own chips or snacks in my house. I eat 3 balanced meals, I work out, drink water, don't buy soda generally etc.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 5:07 pm

Its not about being fat its about being healthy. Believe it or not you can be fat and healthy. The example u gave having seven kids should she starve herself to lose weight I would say starving herself is more unhealthy than being overweight. Not everyone has the same body type not everyone can or should be a size 2 that doesnt make them unhealthy. Obviously obesity in the extreme is probably not healthy but not only because of weight but because of unhealthy eating and usually lack of exercise

amother

Lightgray

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 5:20 pm

I have gone up a size.
I say to people my clothing is too SMALL, not TIGHT.

Just like a baby goes up a size, so Have I!

Im ok with it, but Im not ok with not having clothes that fit.

I feel like I am socially off to say this.

amother

Springgreen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 5:31 pm

I am fat. Here's what it comes down to:

1. All human beings (short of actually evil people) are entitled to a certain baseline level of respect. Even if they make poor choices (such as not taking care of their bodies so well)
2. Fat is not equivalent to stupid. Most of us are aware that we are fat. Most of us are aware of the health risks we face. Quite a few of us are even aware of what might help us lose some weight! You are not smarter than us. We are not in need of your "chiddush" that we need to lay off the cake.
3. Our body is our own business. Sometimes we do well at choosing well, sometimes we don't. That's nobody's business but our own. Your comments are not wanted.

There are some delusional crazies that give fat acceptance a bad name by trying to deny reality. That's not ok. But that doesn't make the 3 points I listed any less true.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 5:44 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

Totally agree with #1 and #3, but #2 feels a bit like cognitive dissonance. Talking strictly if you’re fat due to unhealthy diet and/or lack of exercise, what makes you not want to do anything about it?

kneidelmeidel

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 5:48 pm

It’s such a tricky topic, because in reality, every single person needs to take a unique approach, because each of us have a unique physical and mental makeup. There are soo many factors which play into it, thyroid, hormones, sleep, stress, microbiomes, gut health, metabolism, lifestyle, nutritional awareness, food relationships, water intake, skeletal frame, skin elasticity, heart health, trauma, and on and on and on.

My path to optimal existence, is so completely different to yours. This is as ‘un one size fits all’ (no puns to see here) as it gets.

amother

Moccasin

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

Wanting is not enough to make it happen. The cravings and urges, the feeling hungry, the cycle of willpower and bingeing and shame.....

Clearly you don't struggle with this chronic illness of obesity.

lamplighter ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

Do you speak or listen to Loshon Hara? Don't you know how terrible it is and all the brochos that come with shmiras halashon? Congnitive dissonance much?

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's not cognitive dissonance, it's just plain hard! Is there nothing that you struggle to do simply because it's hard for you to do (or not do, as the case may be)? In my case, it's a combination of general life overwhelm (I'm so tired from taking care of everyone and everything I just don't have the time/energy to take care of myself) and the fact that cake is delicious and also I'd rather read a book than go for a jog.

amother

Cantaloupe ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:19 pm

I'm for detaching it from all moral judgment. It's a health issue like any other. And I see it as more of symptoms of other underlying issues than a cause.

I know this is going to sound conspiratorial and I really don't like to be, but sometimes I think this is just another move on behalf of big pharma and big food to get us to view disease as normal and make us forget how much control we actually have if they weren't constantly trying to sabotage us.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:36 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

I get it, but by saying that you’re inadvertently reinforcing the stereotype that fat people are lazy, no?

Not that I’m saying that fat people are lazy, but these stereotypes do exist, and I don’t see a way to eliminate them unless we go full on fat acceptance, which I think is also very harmful.

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's not laziness. I mean, there's a little bit of that going on for me (and I speak strictly for myself on that). I guess when I choose to read a book instead of exercise, that's laziness. But when I keep choosing unhealthy but convenient food because I was dealing with all sorts of thing at work, with kids, with household stuff etc and in all that I didn't take the time to make a better choice, I wouldn't call that laziness. And if I struggle with cravings, that's not laziness either.

It's actually weird, you can offer me a piece of the most delicious looking and smelling cake and I will not touch it for six hours if I just ate something fleshig, no problem. But if I don't have that stopping me, I will have a very hard time not eating the cake, and probably going for seconds. So it's not a will power issue either. I dont know what I'd call it. Definitely not laziness. But for those of us who struggle with this, it's a real problem and not simple at all.

ftm1234 ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 6:48 pm

I'm not about to accept and support an unhealthy lifestyle, no matter your body size.

I don't care if you're an XXS or 3X- if you live an unhealthy lifestyle, I don't respect you. If you don't respect your own body, why should I have to?

But if you eat healthy and work out, anyone who won't accept you because of your body size is immature at best.

amother

Sapphire ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 7:00 pm

ftm1234 wrote:

By if someone doesn’t eat healthy and work out then they can’t be accepted? We all struggle with different things. Why can you not respect someone like that but respect people with other struggles?

Would you talk so degradingly about someone who smokes, or does drugs or what about someone with anorexia or bulimia?

Why is only fat so unacceptable to you

amother

Petunia ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 7:32 pm

Fat stigma kills. Why do people not seem to care about that? Obesity is medically complex, but the one thing we do know is that, like pretty much every health condition, it can't be shamed out of existence. People can't just will themselves to not be fat. And basically every weight loss method has terrible statistics.

The best thing you can do for the health of fat people is to promote a healthy lifestyle without making it about weight, end weight stigma, and, very importantly, ensure that fat people have access to proper healthcare. If the level of care fat people receive is that they could go to the doctor with a stabbing wound and get diagnosed with obesity and berated that they have to lose weight, then, duh, fat people's health won't be great.

amother

Burgundy ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 7:43 pm

ftm1234 wrote:

You can respect me for who I am. You don't have to respect my body or my attitude towards it.

This is the main problem, equating a person with their weight or (perceived) health.

My goal in life is not to die healthy. I put in some level of effort to maintain a healthy-ish lifestyle, and to make appropriate choices. But weight and health are not my priority right now. I have other areas of my life that demand a lot of time and attention and I am putting my best efforts there for now.

It's not laziness that my body now holds onto weight more than before, though my diet has not changed. It's not laziness that I am not taking shots or starving myself.

I may not agree with your choices when it comes to health, and that's okay. I can still respect you and respect your right to make those choices.

Fat acceptance does have some potential downsides (as stated above), but if it resets the balance and we can start seeing humans (even fat ones) as individuals deserving of respect and agency, it's worth it.

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 7:56 pm

ftm1234 wrote:

I mean, you're certainly allowed to think whatever you want. But do you actually go put of your way to treat people badly because you don't like the choices they make? How does it affect you to treat someone just...normally? That's not "supporting a lifestyle". Unless they're literally asking you to buy them donuts or something, having normal interactions with fat people and treating them like human beings is by no means supporting their choices or or their lifestyle or really mean anything about what you're actually thinking. It's just basic derech eretz.

chocolate moose ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 7:57 pm

I am having a hard time with this. yes health comes in all sizes. as I aged I gained weight but ate healthfully and exercised. I finally accepted it. didnt take too long for me to get diagnosed with diabetes and put on a special way of eating. all the weight and then some melted off. it's true some can be bigger and healthy, but it's not true for everyone. I thought I was ok. I was wrong.

sushilover ↓

Thu, Jul 04 2024, 8:11 pm

You ask which is the right way. The right way is to be honest with ourselves but be kind to everyone.

The fat acceptance movement deliberately lies. They say "there is no evidence that adipose tissue is harmful to our health."
"There is no good reason to consider the general increase of fatness an epidemic. People are becoming taller too, but nobody is talks about a height epidemic." and "The people in the Western world are both fatter and healthier than ever."
They encourage doctors to never mention weight in any context. They say that ANY intentional weight loss is dangerous!
This is all from the Health At Any Size website.

On the other hand, individuals who make assumptions and comments about other people's health are so cruel!

I think we can all agree not to fall for the health at any size lies. But also agree that you have no right to comment on somebody's body unless you are their physician and have concerns. Being overweight does not automatically mean unhealthy.
Obese does not automatically mean unhealthy.
There is no one perfect beauty standard.
Loving your body, focusing on behaviors instead of numbers on the scale, and rejecting crash dieting is a wonderful thing and can lead to more weight loss than otherwise.