Restrictions on children when a parent is sitting shiva?

mom24b

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 9:06 am

Elfrida wrote:

I found a reference in the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch.

He lists the relatives for whom one is chayav to sit shiva, then in the next paragraph he mentions that for other close relatives there is a custom - נוהגים - to display certain signs of mourning until Shabbos after the kevurah.

ר״ג

עַל שִׁבְעָה קְרוֹבִים חַיָבִים לְהִתְאַבֵּל, אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ, בְּנוֹ וּבִתּוֹ, אָחִיו וַאֲחוֹתוֹ בֵּין מִן הָאָב בֵּין מִן הָאֵם, וַאֲפִלּוּ הָיְתָה אֲחוֹתוֹ נְשׂוּאָה לְאִישׁ; הָאִישׁ עַל אִשְׁתּוֹ, וְהָאִשָׁה עַל בַּעְלָהּ.

נוהגין שֶׁגַּם שְׁאָר קְרוֹבִים, מַרְאִים קְצָת אֲבֵלוּת בְּעַצְמָם שָׁבוּעַ הַרִאשוֹן עַד אַחַר הַשַׁבָּת, שֶׁאֵין רוֹחֲצִין בְּחַמִּין, וְאֵין מְשַׁנִּין קְצָת בִּגְדֵיהֶם כְּמוֹ בִּשְׁאָר שַׁבָּת. וְאֵין כָּל הַקְּרוֹבִים שָׁוִין בָּזֶה.

I couldnt find it inside, but apparently Rav Ovadiah Yosef felt that this didn't apply at all nowadays. Other sources state that ine who doesn't observe it, has no need to take it on.

Interestingly, these sources see it as a form of lesser mourning, for more distant relatives. I didn't see any source that put it as, the OP did, as a consequence of parents sitting shiva. (Someone above mentioned this might be considered a sub-clause of kibbud av v'em, but I didn't look in those halachos.) Obviously the OP should follow her Rav, but the sources I saw referenced this custom as applying to grandparents, grandchildren, and parents in law, with no mention of it applying to an uncle.

We don’t paskun according to the kitzur shulchan orech, if it was a Halacha it would be in the Mishnah brurah.

amother

Buttercup

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 9:18 am

essie14 wrote:

My parents and in laws have sat shiva multiple times. Neither DH nor I ever heard of taking on aveilut restrictions. And rabbis were involved in each situation.
I was sitting right there when the Rav was telling my mother and her siblings all the details of what they can and cannot do when their father died and he didn't say a word to me.

This must be a minhag.

To be clear, the additional restrictions apply to the child who is in the same city specifically only.

Elfrida

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 9:20 am

Quote:

We don’t paskun according to the kitzur shulchan orech, if it was a Halacha it would be in the Mishnah brurah.

The point is that even a sefer with less halachic authority is distinguishing between the chovah to sit shiva for first degree relatives, and the custom of assuming some minhagei aveilut for more distant relatives.

Almost all mourning practices are minhagim, learned out from Iyov. Some have taken on a widespread halachic status, others, like this, are followed by certain communities.

goodmorning

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 9:37 am

Elfrida wrote:

In the SA itself (YD 374:6) it is phrased as
כל מי שמתאבל עליו מתאבל עמו אם מת לו מת
Whomever he mourns for he [also] mourns with if he suffers a bereavement.

where the focus is on the mourning with the avel who is a family member. (See the Rema there for a more extensive discussion as to whom and when this pertains to.)

goodmorning

Wed, Jul 03 2024, 9:40 am

mom24b wrote:

We don’t paskun according to the kitzur shulchan orech, if it was a Halacha it would be in the Mishnah brurah.

Without getting into whether the Mishna Berura is the last word in psak, I'll note that there is no Mishna Berura on most of the halachos of aveilus, since they are found in Yoreh Deah and the MB was written only on Orach Chaim. (Some halachos come up in other areas that are in Orach Chaim -- for example, halachos of aveilus on Yom Tov / Chol HaMoed, or halachos of an avel learning Torah / davening -- but the bulk of hilchos aveilus are not in the MB.)