Supreme court ruling- Drafting charedim

↑ Aurora ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 10:39 pm

paperflowers wrote:

What part of what I wrote gave you the impression that I think that?

When you said that there should be a choice for those who would prefer to learn full-time instead of serving.

What, you think that those serving wouldn't also love the chance to learn full time?

essie14 ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:02 pm

Jewishmom8 wrote:

never never agree.
not one boy or man should stop learning.
not one

You mean not one CHAREIDI boy or man.
Because they're literally pulling DL boys from the beit midrash to go fight in Aza.
All hesder guys got their learning cut short.
Do you even realize what you sound like?
Only chareidi torah learning is worthwhile?

↑ essie14 ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:28 pm

amother Floralwhite wrote:

I believe the army should be voluntary to all.
They made their choice and I daven for them all the time. But I am happy with my choice even if you throw tomatoes.

If the army was voluntary you'd probably be dead. Your comments are so so hurtful. I have 3 children in the army and I know numerous soldiers who have been killed to protect YOU. You are coming off as so kafui tov you don't even realize it.

↑ essie14 ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 11:34 pm

DrMom wrote:

Odd that you don't see the Charedi population as having any responsibility for their actions.

It's like a child trying to defend why he hit his baby brother. "He made me do it!"

amother

↑ Brown

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:22 am

amother Grape wrote:

If the entire Jewish population in Israel becomes frum then I strongly believe mashiach will be here. Don't you?

Well there would still be those not in EY in this scenario.

amother

↑ Papayawhip ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:50 am

amother Honeydew wrote:

The Army isnt a rehab center for drop out chareidim.

Excuse me? You don't think Charedi boys have what to contribute?

There might be some less serious learners but if motivated can be a real asset. In the current system, there is no alternative.

Why do we all need to be the same?

Different strokes for different folks.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:57 am

amother Gold wrote:

A society can only support a limited number of people. That gets compounded when large number of able-bodied people don't contribute and instead set themselves up to be supported.

Who on earth supports them? Please tell me.
Instead of spewing out ready made sentences with no substance please explain yourself.

amother

Catmint

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:00 am

Whenever this comes up, I say the same thing.

If Charedim want to say that Torah protects, they should stand by their word. All Iron Dome installations will no longer fire $40k missiles to shoot down Hamas and Hezbollah and Iranian rockets flying towards Bnei Brak, Modiin Illit, Charedi areas of Bet Shemesh and Yerushalayim, Tsfat, etc. Yad Hashem is protecting you, so you don't need all the hishtadlus of the kofrim to keep you safe.

salt ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:04 am

amother OP wrote:

After todays ruling- are the yeshiva bochurim that could be drafted going to learn in the US?

In Navi Hashem warns that its a privilege to live in EY, and when we don't behave He kicks us out. Do we realize that its a gift that can be taken away at any moment? That Moshiach is not here? That we're still in galus? Tifrach and Ponovich and Wolfson etc are not going to enlist en masse, its not going to happen. So what is going to happen?

Absolutely no way I'm reading 9 pages of replies, but if it came down to it that the law said my sons would have to join the army instead of full time learning, of course they would.
Go to the US?? That's a ludicrous suggestion! The thought wouldn't even cross my mind.

amother

DarkRed ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:07 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Who on earth supports them? Please tell me.
Instead of spewing out ready made sentences with no substance please explain yourself.

The state doesn't give money to yeshivos? I remember reading that part of this ruling is to stop giving money.
Is that why the Rabbis from Israel came to the US now to raise money?

amother

↑ DarkRed ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:10 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Why doesn't anyone check statistics and ask how come there are so many non-religious who don't do army service?
Please tell me how this is possible.

What's the statistics of non religious and chareidim?

↑ BadTichelDay

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:14 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Why doesn't anyone check statistics and ask how come there are so many non-religious who don't do army service?
Please tell me how this is possible.

Let's be fair then. Check percentages. If only 50% (ficticious number) of the non-religious serve, also only 50% of chareidim should serve. Wouldn't that be fair?

amother

↑ Jasmine ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:15 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Why doesn't anyone check statistics and ask how come there are so many non-religious who don't do army service?
Please tell me how this is possible.

Check statistics. This is a myth. There are very few nonreligious who don't serve. Even fewer when you exclude those who are legitimately unqualified to serve. As far as I know there are two ways (other than yeshiva studies) to get out of army service. One is that a person is unqualified to serve, the second is that they fake it. How many secular people do you think are faking severe mental health issues so as to not have to serve? It's minimal.

amother

↑ Winterberry ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:26 am

amother Winterberry wrote:

As we speak, the $107,000,000 that the government is stopping to fund the yeshivos is being raised by the Roshei Yeshivos who are visiting the US. This week alone over $60,000,000 of that sum has already been raised.

The yeshivos have no intention of acceding to the anti chareidi AG and Supreme Court. They realize that the primary leverage the left has is the funding, and are making contingency plans to continue without government funding. The odds of any yeshiva bochurim joining the army are exceedingly slim.

The campaign has now raised over $70,000,000 around 2/3 of the total shortfall. I imagine they will have the entire amount raised by the end of this week.

↑ salt ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:36 am

amother DarkRed wrote:

The state doesn't give money to yeshivos? I remember reading that part of this ruling is to stop giving money.
Is that why the Rabbis from Israel came to the US now to raise money?

My Avreich son gets about 800 shekels a month from the state for learning in his kollel.
They are really not supported any more than the government supports soccer leagues and theaters.

Kollel families live extremely simple lives and the wives work hard and fully by the books.

amother

↑ Blonde ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 2:21 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

It's not just ppl learning Torah who can defer service. Its also university students but they are not being criticized because it doesn't fit the narrative

amother

↑ Papayawhip ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 2:29 am

amother Blonde wrote:

It's not just ppl learning Torah who can defer service. Its also university students but they are not being criticized because it doesn't fit the narrative

Most University students are not chareidi.

Either way, we're all benefitting off some of these students when they complete their studies and start working in healthcare, engineering and so many other ways which helps society.

amother

↑ Jasmine ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 2:29 am

amother Blonde wrote:

It's not just ppl learning Torah who can defer service. Its also university students but they are not being criticized because it doesn't fit the narrative

First, let's differentiate between deferring for a year or a few, vs deferring indefinitely.

There are plenty of DL yeshiva students who defer army service until they feel they're spiritually ready to go to the army. But then they go. Many of them even do more than the required amount of service. That's not what we are talking about.

As far as university students, that just isn't true. I've never heard of university students deferring their service. Most Jewish university students in this country begin their studies when they are in their twenties. There is a program to do university through the army, but it's a small program, you need to qualify for it, and afterwards you owe the army extra years of service in return for their financing your schooling. So, no, what you said about university students is neither accurate nor relevant.