S/o kollel ppl should live simply

amother

Impatiens

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 5:19 am

@amother
Of course man who works and sets hours to learn gets zchar. You cant compare that schar to people who are extending themselves beyond nature so they can aquire zchar in olam haba.
Even one who is supported and goes on vacations would probably be living more comfortably if her husband wasnt learning so thats still mesirus nefesh.
A learning man and working man both get zchar but we dont know what levels of zchar there are.
Talmidei Chochomim will be eating the seduas levyason maybe everyone else will get salmon?

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 5:25 am

amother Junglegreen wrote:

This is something someone can say about themselves. This isn’t something you can say about others.
Saying this about yourself = responsible
Saying about others = judgmental or jealous

So I understand you never ever judge anyone, right?
Who do you think you are fooling?

amother

↑ Lemonchiffon

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 5:29 am

bsy wrote:

You mean it's not just my father?!?!?!? I remember we all were rallying against him that he has to come to my sister's Sheva brachos and he couldn't understand why

I know men like this. I'm not always convinced that their motives are so pure. It's just what they consider an acceptable excuse to get out of a social activity they may not enjoy. I know many people, men and women , learning or not who like to get of Sheva bracos and the like. A week of of non stop celebrating is intense. Obviously I'm being very general and I'm sure your dad and Chayalle's husband don't fall into this category, but there are many who do.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 6:09 am

amother Lightcyan wrote:

In our minds working as a lawyer or Doctor means rich.
Learning Torah means poor.
How Do these thoughts get into our minds?

From what we learn about Shevet Shimon, for one.

(I don't think all Kollel couples should be suffering financially, but I do agree with the premise that need should be the primary factor when prioritizing aid to our communities, and that those who claim to be living on a higher standard spiritually should not look down on others who live a more typical life, and certainly should not look down those who live on a lower standard materially.)

amother

↑ Junglegreen

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 7:44 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

So I understand you never ever judge anyone, right?
Who do you think you are fooling?

Yup! I walk around and look at the the sheitles that Kollel wives wear and say how can they be truly living a Torah life if they have nice gashmuis? A Kollel husband’s primary focus should be telling his wife to get a wig that looks like a broom head. They are fakers because gashmuis and ruchnius is a contradiction.
Let’s close the organizations that help fund the kolel as this is all sheker. And btw I see so many Kollel people dripping with so much money. It’s so unfair. They must be stealing from the needy people. That is my sneaking suspicion.

amother

Lime

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 7:51 am

amother Junglegreen wrote:

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 7:51 am

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

You know, d___ if you do, d____ if you don't.
If you don't take your learning as seriously as a job, you aren't learning seriously enough.
And if you do want to show up and not drop your Chavrusah for a week, you have ulterior motives.

As it happened, Sheva Brachos by my oldest had some earlier ones so DH went to night seder afterwards...this time it doesn't seem to be working out that way. I think he has to show up anyway, though I do feel bad about the Chavrusah.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 7:57 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I think that it was Rabbi Akiva who bought his wife a special headpiece made of gold, and when the other wives complained to their husbands that they deserve the same, their husbands answered - did you suffer the way Rochel did? Rachel's mesiras nefesh for Torah has always been an inspiration for all of us women, throughout the ages, but there were other wives of talmedei chachamim as well, who didn't sacrifice the way Rochel did.

I love this example of Rabbi Akiva. And this of course happened when Kalba Savuah was Matir Neder and started supporting them. I can just imagine the whispering going on in the neighborhood about their standard of living and how they should be upholding their values of the past 24 years and continue sleeping on straw (actually, they happily gave away their straw to a poor man which was Eliyahu Hanavi....).....

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:03 am

Chayalle wrote:

Lol, right? Imagine what imamother would say ... what happened to the simple lifestyle? Do you no longer value Torah learning?

amother

↑ Navyblue ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:11 am

Chayalle wrote:

They would say what kind of business does he have giving his wife that beautiful עיר של זהב ornament that the poor working people can’t afford? Kollel is supposed to be living a life of frugality!

And when his talmidim died? Time to tell Akiva to get a job. Doesn’t he know what it says in the kesubah?

↑ Mommyg8

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:13 am

amother Navyblue wrote:

And when his talmidim died? Time to tell Akiva to get a job. Doesn’t he know what it says in the kesubah?

That's actually what the neighbor said to Rochel! Where is your husband? Doesn't he know he gave you a kesubah?

Ladies, think for a minute. Which side of history would you like to align yourself with? Rochel and Rabbi Akiva or her next door neighbor?

amother

↑ Navyblue ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:28 am

Oh and when Rachel first sent him away to learn they would say

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

I know men like this. I'm not always convinced that their motives are so pure. It's just what they consider an acceptable excuse to get out of a social activity they may not enjoy.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 8:34 am

amother Navyblue wrote:

Oh and when Rachel first sent him away to learn they would say

Yup. Way to get out all the household chores....

amother

↑ Navyblue

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 9:15 am

Akiva is 40 years old and has a minimum wage shepherd job with no skills. Now he wants to learn in kollel? It’s not like he’ll be a gadol or something. No wonder your father is so down on him.

Enough is enough. This is never what kollel was meant for. It’s time to put your foot down. It’s time for DH to leave kollel and go for a social work degree or something. At least then he could work in a clinic and contribute to the family budget. Besides, it will give him the skills to navigate the rocky relationship with your dad Kalba Savuah….

↑ Chayalle

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 12:04 pm

Aurora wrote:

They teach the story of Rabbi Akiva, but things didn't always work out so well for the other rabbis in the Talmud who went away to learn.

Cuz there's no one size fits all.
And that's exactly the point.
In the Kollel world too. No one lifestyle. No one Hashkafa. People are diverse and they bring that along with them. And their needs are diverse. And what they should be doing with life.
And it's on us to try and just live our own lives without constantly passing judgement on everyone else.

↑ mha3484 ↓

Tue, Jun 25 2024, 12:25 pm

I think everyone has to find their ideal middle ground. I hate the term living simply. Its about balance and being moderate in your approach to gashmius. Have what you need for your family but do it in a way that is tznius.

Housing is a good example. In my city a common house type is 3 bed 1 bath on the second floor. Its very squishy for your average family so people build back to make more bed and bathrooms. If you can afford it why should you be shoved in like sardines. But at the same time do you need to tear it down and buy the house next door and make something 5000 square feet? For most people they really dont.

There are other ways that this manifests but to me its about being a balanced person.

Also most of my peers making 300k can easily pay 100k alone in tuition so your not living a life of luxury even if you want it.